direct drive motor 450 pro cp / fp

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by ScotY

I realize you guys want to use the torque tube but just to throw another idea out there...you could mount the motor on the side of the frame, outside that is, using a belt. This might allow the motor to stay closer to the main shaft for CG consideration or position as desired for more tail length. Two benefits...no motor mount needed and you'd get rid of the half twist in the belt for a little less drag.

Sweet idea Scot! You guys are coming up with some good stuff. The only thing I would be worried about with this configuration is with the needed belt tension there would be a lot of side loading on the motor shaft. Wondering if it would prematurely wear out the shaft bearings.

[ScotY]

Actually, if you used a flanged bearing on the opposite side frame and extended the motor shaft, that should work. You'd probably need some sort of stop ring to keep the bearings in place.

[johnnycat500]

Man ScotY your brain is on fire. Mounting the motor on the side is the bomb. What I like about this is a few holes in the frame and now this frame is for cp/fp and ddvp tail. Great idea's. HH I have been consumed with the quad's and yesterday had my 2nd FPV flight so I have not drilled out the motor for 5mm yet. I will get to it. The hard to get openpilot flight controller that I use on the quad Is going on my hkj500 dual belt drive soon. So hope to get the heli's going soon.Is there a motor that has a real long shaft that would span the frame for a bearing like ScotY suggested??

[hochoco]

Originally Posted by HELIHANKSTER

@Harold

You should definitely try 4s on that sweet machine. The power increase is very noticeable. Just don’t be like me, make sure everything is tighten down good, cause 4s will find any weak spots.

The Gazaur canopy looks awesome! Always wanted to try one out on one of my 450s.

Wanted to drill out the shaft today, but being its mother day and my sons birthday day is tomorrow I had to do some cleaning up for his party so didn’t really have a chance. Wonder if JC has had a chance to drill out his motor yet.

Helihankster, thanks for your reply!
I tried the 4S setup and it is indeed more powerful but I get a bad vibration that starts when it is about to lift off. Looks like I need to check the head or blade for balance. Looks like it is induced at a higher RPM. I like the power though. I will need to tweak the head to get rid of such vibration and it looks like it will fly better on the 4S.

HAROLD

[hochoco]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

.... Is there a motor that has a real long shaft that would span the frame for a bearing like ScotY suggested??

The appropriate motor for this setup normally takes a 3mm shaft.
I have been retrofitting the motors with a longer 3mm shaft for my DDVP tails.
I have a picture of the motor with a long shaft in one of my posts.
So this should not be a problem and is very easy to do.

ScotY, thanks for your excellent idea!

HAROLD

[ScotY]

Hey guys,
Hope this works out for you all...it's a neat project and if I had the free time, I'd definitely want to participate. For now, following along is about all I can manage. Of course, someone will say the helicopter will be off balance with the motor hanging off the side. My opinion is it's not that big of a deal. It's close to the center (short moment arm) and it's not that heavy. Just put your ESC and/or tail servo on the opposite side and that ought to be enough. Keep up the good work and looking forward to reading about version...what is it now?

[johnnycat500]

Harold do you have any link for putting longer shaft on? or how you did it.

[HELIHANKSTER]

How about this for a easy way to mount the motor shaft support bearing on to the frame. Take one side of a cheap clone 450 tail box and mount it to the frame with some small bolts and nut.

This is just a quick mockup so no nitpicking. lol.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by hochoco

Helihankster, thanks for your reply!
I tried the 4S setup and it is indeed more powerful but I get a bad vibration that starts when it is about to lift off. Looks like I need to check the head or blade for balance. Looks like it is induced at a higher RPM. I like the power though. I will need to tweak the head to get rid of such vibration and it looks like it will fly better on the 4S.

HAROLD

I had the same vibs at high rpm. It turned out to be the main shaft wasn’t perfectly centered in the DD motor. Had to play around with the three main shaft securing grubs screws on the motor, tightening each one a little at a time till the shaft was perfectly centered and the vibs were gone.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by ScotY

Hey guys,
Hope this works out for you all...it's a neat project and if I had the free time, I'd definitely want to participate. For now, following along is about all I can manage. Of course, someone will say the helicopter will be off balance with the motor hanging off the side. My opinion is it's not that big of a deal. It's close to the center (short moment arm) and it's not that heavy. Just put your ESC and/or tail servo on the opposite side and that ought to be enough. Keep up the good work and looking forward to reading about version...what is it now?

totally agree, its not a big deal having the motor hanging off the side. I doubt you would even notice it. Come on...are you sure you dont want to build one of these bad boys.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

Man ScotY your brain is on fire. Mounting the motor on the side is the bomb. What I like about this is a few holes in the frame and now this frame is for cp/fp and ddvp tail. Great idea's. HH I have been consumed with the quad's and yesterday had my 2nd FPV flight so I have not drilled out the motor for 5mm yet. I will get to it. The hard to get openpilot flight controller that I use on the quad Is going on my hkj500 dual belt drive soon. So hope to get the heli's going soon.Is there a motor that has a real long shaft that would span the frame for a bearing like ScotY suggested??

Sweet, looking forward to seeing the hkj500 in the air. JC, I’m glad you’re into the quads, because this knowledge is going to be useful when we build one of these.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTu7oWmU68w[/ame]

[ScotY]

Hey Hank,
Good idea there! You could try it like that without making new frames. A flanged bearing in the frame would do just as well and save weight if it works out.
I do want to get involved but I seriously have not enough free time and too many unfinished projects! I have a 450 Pro that's STILL not finished, amongst a bunch of other half-done projects. I've got two sets of nice electronics for 450s with nothing to put it in. I have a serious problem. A lot of times the V2 version kit comes out before I even take the V1 out of the box...ha ha! Anyway, maybe by the time I get caught up, this helicopter will be done! I do enjoy following along so keep it up!

[hochoco]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

Harold do you have any link for putting longer shaft on? or how you did it.

Helihankster just did it as shown on the latest photo he uploaded.
To replace the shaft, you just need to loosen one or two set screws (depending on the motor brand )at the bell end.

[johnnycat500]

Originally Posted by HELIHANKSTER

Sweet, looking forward to seeing the hkj500 in the air. JC, I’m glad you’re into the quads, because this knowledge is going to be useful when we build one of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTu7oWmU68w

Sort of like this HH. Modified dd 450 pro frame.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by ScotY

Hey Hank,
Good idea there! You could try it like that without making new frames. A flanged bearing in the frame would do just as well and save weight if it works out.
I do want to get involved but I seriously have not enough free time and too many unfinished projects! I have a 450 Pro that's STILL not finished, amongst a bunch of other half-done projects. I've got two sets of nice electronics for 450s with nothing to put it in. I have a serious problem. A lot of times the V2 version kit comes out before I even take the V1 out of the box...ha ha! Anyway, maybe by the time I get caught up, this helicopter will be done! I do enjoy following along so keep it up!

You’re right, a flanged bearing would definitely be better. I just had the tail box side in the parts bin and figured it would also do the job. Mainly it was just for the mockup to show your concept. Last week before the frame mounted tail motor mod really got going, I jumped the gun and ordered the parts I needed to try the belt to TT mod I show in post #200. So will be using my dd fp frame set to give the TT mod ago. If the TT mod doesn’t work out, will definitely give the side mounted motor mod a go.

Brother I totally understand. With work, two young kids and a long a$$ honey do list, I to am having a hard time finding time to feed my addiction.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

Sort of like this HH. Modified dd 450 pro frame.

Sweet looking machine JC!

Sort of, that really wasn’t the video I wanted to post, but couldn’t find the ones I wanted last night.

These are the right videos.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK61Q0crRGo&feature=context-chv[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCwYY2I_lOE&feature=plcp[/ame]

Two independent rotor systems, just like the Scorpion gunship in the movie Avatar. Something about this setup just really appeals to me and makes me want to build one. Problem is…I wouldn’t know where to start as I have zero quad experience.

PS Turn the volume off on the second video...the music will make you want to shoot your brains out...you've been warned lol!

[HELIHANKSTER]

My son wasn’t the only one that opened packages yesterday. I received some of the parts needed to try the TT to belt mod. Still need to order a set of 360mm blades and maybe some better cyclic servos as this will be my first true flybarless cp helicopter. Also still waiting on the small timing belt that goes between the drive pulleys. Hopefully will have the belt by the weekend so I can at least do a static test on the tail drive setup.

Modifying the front TT drive was a snap and only took five mintues. Pulled the lower drive gear off using a pinion gear puller and then pressed on the metal 11T pulley using my bench vise. Will wait to I have the timing belt installed to slot the frame boom block mounting holes. Now I need to start reading up on the CopterX CX-3X1000 gyro so when the time comes, I have half a chance of getting everything to work right…hehe.

[johnnycat500]

Lookin good HH. If all these different things you are trying works, than it would be cool to mod the frame file and put all the holes and slots in the frame so it could be set up 4 or 5 ways.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Sounds like a plan JC

If the TT/belt mod works, it wouldn’t take much changing of the DD cp file. I’m off work today and in the man cave cleaning up, so going to take a picture in a few minutes to give you an idea what needs to be done to the frame for the mod.

[HELIHANKSTER]

I used the bottom front stock Pro boom mount hole you already had in the ddfp frame as a guide and overlay a Pro stock side frame to mark the upper front, lower back mounting holes and standoffs openings for the plastic boom mount. Also would need to add back some frame to place the upper back hole.