Dual PowerLab 8x2

[Striges]

Hi,

I am looking to buy a new charger and am deciding between the PowerLab 8x2 and iCharger 401 DUO chargers.

One thing that seams like a big drawback with the pl8x2 charger is that it doesnt appear to be as user friendly as the iCharger and that they use thier own balance leads instead of jst-xh. However two separate input channels is a big plus and its cheaper and easierto find 1500w psu's than 2000w psu's.

I plan on using a 6xEC5 charging harness and a jst-xh harness per channel. Can this be done using something like this: CP8S-GP/KO6S + a harness and a Quantum EC5 Parallel Charge lead 6 with 4mm banana plugs?

[Slyster]

My opinion...... I had the PL6 and moved to the 4010Duo. LOVE the duo... so much more.... and the PL6s are basically the same as the PL8s (screen, features etc).

iCharger 4010 Duo. A little tour of Chernobyl (0 min 56 sec)

[Striges]

Interesting to hear that you went from powerlab to iCharger 4010 and that you like it better. I was under the impression that powerlab was an superior charger.

I have a friend at the club who owns a iCharger 4010 so I have seen it in action and it is really powerfull and very easy to use.
The powerlabs do not appear to be as easy to use from what i have read about them but i might be wrong since i have never actually seen one in real life.

[Slyster]

Originally Posted by Striges

Interesting to hear that you went from powerlab to iCharger 4010 and that you like it better. I was under the impression that powerlab was an superior charger.

Well perhaps it is the 'better' charger in terms of quality and the finer details (that I never use).. but all I need a charger to do is charge my packs at 3C! And regeneratively discharge back into the deeps if I don't use a pack. Both do that.

I love how IR, deep cycle voltage, cells, balance, temp etc are all shown live on the color screen... and it's so user friendly.. you saw how I have it programmed? Its like using a calculator vs a laptop feel to it.

Just a few seconds to start any amperage I want. Either charger is going to get the job done. I've heard of a few 4010's having issues.. but really only 3 or 4 on the forum here since I got mine last year. But they do have good CS especially through progressiverc.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Striges

The powerlabs do not appear to be as easy to use from what i have read about them but i might be wrong since i have never actually seen one in real life.

The Powerlabs enable a significant amount of flexibility. Though all the defaults work well for most people, once you get a little deeper into the configuration options, it will be very hard to step down to a less flexible charger.

The best way to use the Powerlab is to start with the PC interface and setup presets for each of your scenarios. This can be done with the free PC software. See the tour here http://www.revolectrix.com/CCS_Tour.htm The iChargers do not have PC software.

Once its setup, at the field you select the preset for your scenario and start charging. There's also an option to tell the charger how many packs are in parallel. This allows you to use the same preset for parallel charging a different number of packs each time. When compared to other chargers, you have to many change the charge

Regarding the balance connector, no one should be regular plugging packs directly into a charger. It wears on the chargers connector and can put the charger at more risk. Instead a fused balance board should be used regardless of the charger selected. Most vendors sell either the Revolectrix MPA or a 3rd party fused parallel board with the correct cable to connect the Powerlabs.

[Striges]

Originally Posted by Gregor99

The Powerlabs enable a significant amount of flexibility. Though all the defaults work well for most people, once you get a little deeper into the configuration options, it will be very hard to step down to a less flexible charger.

The best way to use the Powerlab is to start with the PC interface and setup presets for each of your scenarios. This can be done with the free PC software. See the tour here http://www.revolectrix.com/CCS_Tour.htm The iChargers do not have PC software.

Once its setup, at the field you select the preset for your scenario and start charging. There's also an option to tell the charger how many packs are in parallel. This allows you to use the same preset for parallel charging a different number of packs each time. When compared to other chargers, you have to many change the charge

Regarding the balance connector, no one should be regular plugging packs directly into a charger. It wears on the chargers connector and can put the charger at more risk. Instead a fused balance board should be used regardless of the charger selected. Most vendors sell either the Revolectrix MPA or a 3rd party fused parallel board with the correct cable to connect the Powerlabs.

Thank you for the link. Very usefull to see what the software does! I am starting to like the pl8x2 more and more!
The customer service seams great aswell. I emailed and asked about options and they are really fast at responding.

How do you use the presets the best? This is the part I have the most difficulty to find information about. I dont think I get whats so great about it.
Should I create say 3 presets for chargin at home, 2C, 3C, 4C and 2 presets for field charging from a 12V deep cycle battery at 2C and 3C. Will it ask how many are in parallell then to and set the correct amsp?

With my iCharger (208B) I dont have to do anything special. I have programmed sensitivity and some other small adjustments and then i just set the charge current after I connect my batteries and press charge.

[Gregor99]

The easiest method is to setup presets for each of your common charging scenarios. There are 25 open preset slots so you can get crazy if you want. But most people only use a handful.

I setup my presets, one for each model.

4400 3c charge rate
2600 3c charge rate
1200 3c charge rate

All three presets are set to 2 packs in parallel. But you can change that only the fly. No need to adjust the charge rate. If you wanted addition presets for 1c or 2c, you could add more.

I also leave the defaults in place for charging Tx packs, and smaller packs as needed. You can hide unused presets. You can also load presets from the preset library, even directly from the console of the charger. This is handy if you are at the field and need a preset that is not currently loaded. Load it from the library and charge away.

Once you get it setup the way you like it, back up all user presets to a file. That way you can load them onto a second charger if you get one. Or if your charger ever needs service, you have a backup if your settings in case the need to be reloaded when you get it back.

[Striges]

Ahh, yes I see how that can be usefull. Thnx!

I have made up my mind. Going to order as soon as i get my next pay check!

[Bladecpnitro]

Originally Posted by Gregor99

The easiest method is to setup presets for each of your common charging scenarios. There are 25 open preset slots so you can get crazy if you want. But most people only use a handful.

I setup my presets, one for each model.

4400 3c charge rate
2600 3c charge rate
1200 3c charge rate

All three presets are set to 2 packs in parallel. But you can change that only the fly. No need to adjust the charge rate. If you wanted addition presets for 1c or 2c, you could add more.

I also leave the defaults in place for charging Tx packs, and smaller packs as needed. You can hide unused presets. You can also load presets from the preset library, even directly from the console of the charger. This is handy if you are at the field and need a preset that is not currently loaded. Load it from the library and charge away.

Once you get it setup the way you like it, back up all user presets to a file. That way you can load them onto a second charger if you get one. Or if your charger ever needs service, you have a backup if your settings in case the need to be reloaded when you get it back.

How quickly can you get to the load preset button Greggory99?
The borrowed iCharger 208 that I'm using, I have to press the far left button 8 times to get to the load presets button, then select it, then scroll to the one I need. By the time I do all that I can run the amps up or down faster for instance if I'm only gonna charge 1 or 2 packs instead of 5.

Seems like to me there should be a presets button that takes you strait to the choices you have.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Bladecpnitro

How quickly can you get to the load preset button Greggory99?
The borrowed iCharger 208 that I'm using, I have to press the far left button 8 times to get to the load presets button, then select it, then scroll to the one I need. By the time I do all that I can run the amps up or down faster for instance if I'm only gonna charge 1 or 2 packs instead of 5.

Seems like to me there should be a presets button that takes you strait to the choices you have.

The Powerlab UI is completely different than the iCharger. The iCharger has a base menu then presets have to be called up, and loaded in as you describe.

With the Powerlabs the presets are the main menu. When you start it up, you use the increase/decrease buttons to select which preset you want. There are slots for 25 presets. Using the PC software you configure the presets you want and can disable or hide the ones you don't need. Most scenarios can be covered by just a few presets which cleans up the preset menu. Also since you can tell the charger how many packs are in parallel the same preset can be used for charging 1, 2, up to 16 packs without needing to change the charge current. The charger multiples the packs parallel by the charge current in the preset and starts the charge.

Also once you have the presets setup the way you want, you can just press and hold the start button to launch the charge cycle.

[Striges]

Is it possible to use pl8x2 in "synchronous mode" like the iCharger?
Cant find anything on the hp about it but maybe im blind... The only thing i can find is this:

Input Voltage: Each channel may be operated on separate power supplies using 110V/15A isolated circuits for best results. Additionally both channels may be operated on one power supply provided packs on each channel are isolated.

This would imply they dont have to be isolated?

[Gregor99]

The DPL approach to channel integration is slightly different. When the DPL runs in the channel integrated mode, the control panel of one charger operates both charges simultaneously. Its like having a large single charger that allows parallel charging on two packs, except each pack is separately monitored.

I'll often use this mode to charge two large flight packs. Two packs in parallel on each channel, four packs total. Start, control and monitor the charge from a single control panel. Up to 15 total channels can be linked together this way. This has some significant advantages. If you have to parallel charge, charging two packs in parallel is better than four or six. In the unlikely event of a channel failure, the other channel is independent and will continue to operate.

It is not possible to tie the outputs of both channels together to double current charge and balance current.

[Striges]

Ah, ok. Since I will mainly use it to charge my 12s stick packs, this could be a usefull feature.

I am thinking of buying a couple of charging harnesses and balance lead harnesses instead of the MPA board if thats possible? Reason I ask is that there is a text on the CP-GP/KO adapters saying "warning one pack only" and the MPA boards are so expensive. Two MPA's would cost an additional 40% on top of the pl8x2 and thats just way to much.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Striges

Ah, ok. Since I will mainly use it to charge my 12s stick packs, this could be a usefull feature.

I am thinking of buying a couple of charging harnesses and balance lead harnesses instead of the MPA board if thats possible? Reason I ask is that there is a text on the CP-GP/KO adapters saying "warning one pack only" and the MPA boards are so expensive. Two MPA's would cost an additional 40% on top of the pl8x2 and thats just way to much.

MPAs are awesome, no doubt about it. But two of them are a bit large if you only want to parallel charge two packs per channel. This unit was just announced by ProgressiveRC

http://www.progressiverc.com/safe-pa...st-xh-ec5.html

[Striges]

I saw they have som modular charge boards aswell that look realy nice.

Been trying to find out if it is possible to discharge to external loads but i cant find anything in the manual except regenerative discharge, but thats not the same thing.
Can you confirm that its not possible to do this and if its possible to monitor lipo cell's and set alarm voltage like i can do on my icharger 208b? That way i can use an external load and have the charger sound an alarm so i know when to abort discharge.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Striges

I saw they have som modular charge boards aswell that look realy nice.

Been trying to find out if it is possible to discharge to external loads but i cant find anything in the manual except regenerative discharge, but thats not the same thing.
Can you confirm that its not possible to do this and if its possible to monitor lipo cell's and set alarm voltage like i can do on my icharger 208b? That way i can use an external load and have the charger sound an alarm so i know when to abort discharge.

No discharge into external load. iCharger wins on this point. But is often very difficult to implement with the iChargers. iCharger also has discharge+ which the Powerlabs don't. Again, very difficult to implement for the user and quite frankly unsafe for the charger in some scenarios. Which is the main reason its not on the Powerlab currently.

However the DPL does have a very solid internal discharger. What I'm hearing in the iCharger threads is that is downright foolhardy (not my word) to use the internal discharger on the new gen iChargers. I did the beta testing on the DPL and pushed many long term discharges at max wattage. No issues. This is one reason the DPL has a larger case. A larger heat is required to do to high wattage discharge safely.

I'm not sure about the alarm question. I do something similar with a CellLog during external discharge. If that is what you are describing, then no the DPL doesn't have that function. It does have a monitor function, and you can connect that will discharging externally. Hook up a laptop that a Pro version of Windows then connect remotely over RDP from your iPad, or Windows client and monitor the progress.

[Striges]

I have heard the same about internal discharge with iCharger. Thats why i am looking in to using eighter external load with the charger or an external discharger.

I googled CellLog and yes, thats the feature i was asking about. My iCharger 208B has this built in so i have been using it to monitor cell voltages when i use my external discharger (light bulbs). But the CellLog is pretty inexpensive so ill probably just get a couple of those.

Thank you for being so helpful and answering all of my questions!

[RedOctobyr]

I bought a 308Duo in the fall. I'd been planning on a PL8, but the 308Duo offered a lot more, for an extra $30. If FMA had a Dual PL6 on the market, that might have won out.

The internal discharge on the Duos has its issues, some people have had failures, no question. I was nervous about using it, and limited the wattage for a while, if I used it at all. Then someone raised the point that, if it will fail, it's more likely to happen early-on, as an "infant mortality" type of issue. So I'd prefer to find out if my charger is likely-OK or likely-not-OK, while still under warranty. So I've started using the internal discharge at full power (120W max), with no issues so far. I just used it last night to bring down my (3) 6S 4100s.

With that said, external-load discharging, from one channel to the other, is my long-term plan. The older iCharger Discharge+ method is very cumbersome to set up, I agree with Greg. But the new approach that the Duos offer, of discharging from one channel, into resistors/bulbs on the other channel, is much simpler. And it still keeps the charger from being heated up, like what happens with an internal discharge.

Build a suitable resistive setup. This can be aluminum-bodied power resistors, it can be light-bulbs, etc. You can use inexpensive sealed-beam headlights for cars, 2 wired in series provides a 24V load, maybe 100-200W, depending on the bulbs. You set the max volts and amps that the charger is allowed to put into the load. I made a spreadsheet (I can provide the link) to help people calculate those values, based on their resistors.

Then you connect your packs on one channel, resistors on the other, and set the discharge amps you want, and the target voltage. The charger takes the voltage from the packs, and steps it up/down as needed, to provide the discharge amps you requested, up to the limits for your resistive load, which you set. It tapers down the current at the end, and stops automatically. The same resistors can be used for 1S or 6S, 1A or 25A, the charger figures out the details.

I currently have a 400W load made out of some aluminum power resistors. And I'm going to be building a load out of a $10 1800W hair dryer, borrowing the clever idea of tungsten2k, over on RCGroups. It will give me the full 650W channel-to-channel resistive discharge, while automatically running a fan (in the hair dryer) to keep the load from getting too hot. That will give me 26A of discharge, on 6S.

Fortunately, a CellLog, plus the resistive load of your choice, can allow high-power discharging, without even needing a charger at all. But in that case, your discharge amps are fixed, based on the resistance of the load, unlike using the channel-to-channel mode of the Duos.

I would never question the quality or features of the PowerLabs. But the external discharging options provided by the Duos are actually quite nice, and a feature that I would miss, if I went to a PowerLab. 650W (up to 1000W on the 4010Duo) can bring even large packs down quickly, without heat-stressing the charger.

[John Cook]

I've been away from the hobby for close to 2 years before my recent return. At the time I left, the PL8/6 were kings. I still have 4 PL8 chargers so I'm set there, but the reason I went to the PL's was the balancers and accuracy of the chargers. I've had too many chargers show a good balance on the screen, but were off in actual results. The FMA chargers, for me have always been the most accurate and reliable. Also, at that time, the FMA chargers had the best cross cell balancing and wattage capacity to balance across cells. This is something that concerned me with parallel charging as 2x5000mah 6s packs if even a little off would take forever on some nicely spec'd chargers due to the inability of the balancers to do their jobs.

The new iChargers may have fixed these issues I'm not sure, but until I know more about the accuracy and balancing, I'd continue to recommend FMA chargers. I've seen so many expensive lipos that die "early" and called crap lipos when people used cheaper chargers and poor practices. IMO the two biggest killers to Lipos are overheating/drawing down too low(variable with packs and styles), and bad chargers often overcharging one cell or more while others are low. Storage too at high voltages, but most people know not to do that.

[povern]

R C H N podcast has a good review on the Dual PL8.

After reading that, I bought a PL8 and love it, once it was set up.

I have since sold all my other chargers....