Need Help.. pl6..mpa...rev batts..

[mtour]

Ok I will try not to complicate this too much...

Two of my 4 HV 6s packs would not read cell 6, tried with two different lipo checkers. I have also had this happen with my diamond packs. The pl6 would not charge them, gave wrong hx node wiring. Tried to charge them on a duo charger in parallel and one of the batts came off charge way out of balance (4.03,4.23,4.26.4.25,4.21,4.03). After they came off charge I tried to get a reading with the lipo checker and could not get a reading on cell6 on both packs. The pl6 would not even monitor the battery, would get the wrong node wiring warning. Again tried with two lipo checker and the pl6. I then tried the lipo checker and press it to the back of the 6s lead from the hv pack and could get a reading on cell 6. The crazy thing is just after that I could get a reading on both packs with the lipo checker. It's like the batteries fixed themselves. I have also had this problem with diamond pack no reading on cell6 , had one go bad this spring with a high ir on cell6 the pack had under 30 flights. I alway balance charge..use less then 80% and place on storage charge.

I am very nervous with this setup, the duo charger was set to 4.20v. These HV packs have around 10 flights on them. I would not expect there to be any corrosion issues, I tried plugging and unplugging the lipo checker in 10 times to clean the contacts

It is nice to know that the PL6 is smart enough to not start the charge, but I am at a loss to why I am having these issues. All I can think of is corrosion of some sort in the balance leads.

[hemp]

Seems like a strange issue to have repeatedly with different packs. Is there a chance that you're pulling on the wires instead of the connector housings when you pull them apart?

Something like these AB clips from buddyrc can help by giving you a more substantial part to grab onto when pulling on them. Also they have some additional clamping built in to help ensure the pins don't retreat from the connector:

http://www.buddyrc.com/6s-ab-clips-5-sets.html

[mtour]

I do pull on the wires to separate the connectors, but i cut off the barb on the connector so the seperate really easy. I pinch all the wires at once and pull. You would think the wire would pull out of the connector if it was damaged.

[mtour]

ok.. When I plug in the lipo checker in the balance lead and rock it in and out very slightly I notice on the back of the lead plug that the silver plugs are moving back and forth slightly but the end black wire in not gabbing enough to move with the others. I also found that my lipo checker pin that goes in the end black was slightly bent in, could this misaligned pin have caused damage to the battery connectors.

I there an easy way to get the black lead on the balance lead to grab better.

Thanks..

[CharlieK]

Lipo balance connector pins are fairly delicate (thin metal) and can easily deform enough to cause poor contact. To add insult, the mating connector male pins are not as uniform as one would like. Repeated "normal" use can result in connection problems, that in turn, are the cause of cell balance difficulties.
At first, this seems unlikely, due to the "low" currents usually present during the balance process. In principal, it's possible to program a charger so that the cell voltage measurements are made with and without the balance current being present. The difficulties in doing this are the settling time required, and the additional program complexity.

Higher available balance currents can obviously aggravate the problem.

One way to see if the lipo balance connector pins might be a cause is to use the monitor capability of many chargers, and gently wiggle the balance wires and pins one at a time.

Possible solutions - - -
Clean the pins with an electronic cleaner or grain alcohol. (The drinking kind, not drugstore rubbing alcohol)

Carefully remove the female pins one at a time from the connector shell, and reform them to make better contact. I found that there are at least two female pin designs.
One, with an obvious spring wiper, is much easier to work with than the others.

Another useful technique can be to lower the charge current.
First charge the lipo normally to between 4 and 4.1v per cell, using the 1C rate or higher
Next, lower the set charge current to 1/10C.

This works because the balance current is much lower, resulting in a smaller measurement error due to current flow in the balance leads and connector pins.

A 5000mah lipo at 1C
Normal 1C charge current 5A
Balance current on some chargers might be up to a 500 or 1000mah charger limit.
Charge done would occur at 1/10 or 1/20 C (500mah 1/10C)

If the set charge current is reduced to 1/10 C, then the balance charge current will reduce, and also the balance current at charge done.

The obvious disadvantages are a longer overall charge time, and the need to setup and use a second lower charge rate.

Some charger allow use of options and settings that can accomplish the same sort of thing.

[mtour]

Now getting over voltage warning trying to charge a single 60C 6s diamond pack....

Any ideas...

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by mtour

Now getting over voltage warning trying to charge a single 60C 6s diamond pack....

Any ideas...

I would clean the pins with Deoxit. The use DVM to check the voltage on each cell.

[Digger1973]

Originally Posted by mtour

Ok I will try not to complicate this too much...

Two of my 4 HV 6s packs would not read cell 6, tried with two different lipo checkers. I have also had this happen with my diamond packs. The pl6 would not charge them, gave wrong hx node wiring. Tried to charge them on a duo charger in parallel and one of the batts came off charge way out of balance (4.03,4.23,4.26.4.25,4.21,4.03). After they came off charge I tried to get a reading with the lipo checker and could not get a reading on cell6 on both packs. The pl6 would not even monitor the battery, would get the wrong node wiring warning. Again tried with two lipo checker and the pl6. I then tried the lipo checker and press it to the back of the 6s lead from the hv pack and could get a reading on cell 6. The crazy thing is just after that I could get a reading on both packs with the lipo checker. It's like the batteries fixed themselves. I have also had this problem with diamond pack no reading on cell6 , had one go bad this spring with a high ir on cell6 the pack had under 30 flights. I alway balance charge..use less then 80% and place on storage charge.

I am very nervous with this setup, the duo charger was set to 4.20v. These HV packs have around 10 flights on them. I would not expect there to be any corrosion issues, I tried plugging and unplugging the lipo checker in 10 times to clean the contacts

It is nice to know that the PL6 is smart enough to not start the charge, but I am at a loss to why I am having these issues. All I can think of is corrosion of some sort in the balance leads.

Hmm said charger balanced out the wacked out cells and charged said packs when *cough* pl6 wouldn't, time to upgrade to a charger that works? Lol

Sorry dave I have to have fun with this since my icharger 308duo was the only charger used yesterday.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Digger1973

Sorry dave I have to have fun with this since my icharger 308duo was the only charger used yesterday.

Ran the discharger on my DPL (both channels) at full tilt in 80f temps for over an hour last night (several large packs). My DPL still works fine today

[Digger1973]

Lol so does my duo.

[mtour]

I believe the issue is with the cablen that connects the PL6 to the MPA, two of the wires looked like the contacts were streched, not providing a good contact. I moved these to c7 and c8, also treated the contacts with deotix.

As far as the dou vs pl6, the pl6 could not see c6 and it would not start to charge, but the dou was more then happy to charge and put the cell way out of balance, it was a good thing it was a FMA hv pack as it put some of the cells to 4.27v..

[Ace Dude]

Originally Posted by mtour

As far as the dou vs pl6, the pl6 could not see c6 and it would not start to charge, but the dou was more then happy to charge and put the cell way out of balance, it was a good thing it was a FMA hv pack as it put some of the cells to 4.27v..

This is a testament to the safety features designed into the Revolectrix PowerLab chargers. These safety features along with the PowerLab's reliability track record are the reason the PowerLabs are the only chargers I use and recommend.

[Digger1973]

What wasn't said is he stopped the balance section while the duo was balancing the cells out. The cells were far out if wack and needed extended time in balancing. Same thing on sunday when we flew and he used my duo. His cells were everywhere and it took awhile to balance them. Pl6 took them out of balance drastically and I have seen a cell or cells get over discharged from the pl6 not doing its job and saying they were charged. Nice when it kills new 100$+ packs. Glad I went icharger.

Its easy to blame tbe other gear when the prefered gear fails. Save the headache and buy an icharger you know you want to. Grab an E5 while your at it. Lol.

You know what is funny, mtour and I go back and forth steady about what gear to buy from heli's to radios and everything in between. Hey Dave buy the same gear as me and your golden. After all my crap just works lol. You know you want to come to the darkside, just do it lol.

[Ace Dude]

Originally Posted by Digger1973

Pl6 took them out of balance drastically and I have seen a cell or cells get over discharged from the pl6 not doing its job and saying they were charged. Nice when it kills new 100$+ packs.

I've had two Multi4's, two PL8's (first production batch V1's) and now a Dual PowerLab 8x2. I've never seen or hear of (until now) a PowerLab charger taking cells out of balance. Do you have any charge graphs from to show this happening?

[Digger1973]

What do you think this thread has been about lol. Love what you buy but no need to trash another when it is used to get the job done. It looks like a bad cable issue on the pl6 which I have said a few times. I had to poke some fun back at mtour since he has used my duo to charge his packs so he could fly. Even more so since him and I debate gear almost constantly when we fly. I fly a spectrum and never had an issue. He flies futaba. I use icharger duo and he uses a pl6. I like synergy, alees, etc. He likes align (which I own one and call it crap).

So instead of taking offence to me having a bit of fun with a friend, just sit back and buy what you like. I know I will . Everything will fail eventually and we fly in winter which is harder on our gear at -10deg celcius or colder.

[Ace Dude]

Originally Posted by Digger1973

What do you think this thread has been about lol. Love what you buy but no need to trash another when it is used to get the job done. It looks like a bad cable issue on the pl6 which I have said a few times. I had to poke some fun back at mtour since he has used my duo to charge his packs so he could fly. Even more so since him and I debate gear almost constantly when we fly. I fly a spectrum and never had an issue. He flies futaba. I use icharger duo and he uses a pl6. I like synergy, alees, etc. He likes align (which I own one and call it crap).

So instead of taking offence to me having a bit of fun with a friend, just sit back and buy what you like. I know I will . Everything will fail eventually and we fly in winter which is harder on our gear at -10deg celcius or colder.

No offense taken, just looking for the data that show's what you're experiencing. If you have data showing:

"Pl6 took them out of balance drastically and I have seen a cell or cells get over discharged from the pl6 not doing its job and saying they were charged."

We'd like to see it to get a better understanding of what's happening. Do you have it?

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Ace Dude

"Pl6 took them out of balance drastically and I have seen a cell or cells get over discharged from the pl6 not doing its job and saying they were charged."

We'd like to see it to get a better understanding of what's happening. Do you have it?

To add to this point, how do we know the 308 Duo doesn't have a calibration issue? Just because it has worked flawlessly does not mean it as worked accurately. Unless its checked against a quality calibrated DVM or reference voltage, its just blind trust. In this case, there is other evidence. But in general, most people put far too much trust in calibration state based only a "good" history with a product.

As to the poking about iCharger vs Revolectrix, this is the FMA forum after all. Not the general batteries and chargers forum. Would it be a good thing to go to the Synergy forum and start making light hearted comments about how your Align is so much better? I don't think so.

As for the brands comments if you follow the big iCharger thread on RGC these points have been raised:

1) When running with unstable supplies (or supplies in parallel), the iCharger's hardware does not include a sample rate fast enough to about the charge in the event of dangerous supply changes. The Powerlabs have had this capability builtin since the original PL8.

2) There are limiting resistors on the transistors used for balance bypass. This makes them much more vulnerable to damage. Especially as most iCharger owners do not following the recommended connection sequence. The Powerlabs have protective resistors and multistage control over the balance bypass.

That being said, and in balance against all the other low quality chargers on the market, iCharger is better selection than most, save the Powerlabs. Enjoy what you've purchased, share experiences, good and bad, but lets keep to the facts and be respectful. Save the fun loving product bashing for the face to face conversions where we can see the smiles and winks.

[Digger1973]

Over 300 battery cycles on my 308duo and when tested with a multimeter the cell voltages are within.0001 of what the charger says. Like I said. Again. I think the balance leads are bad on the paraboard in use. I didnt have a cable for the pl6 to swap out the lead since it uses a slimmer plug than the duo does. Otherwise I think it would of been solved weeks ago. Logs should be on my sd card provided I have the logging turned on. I don't normally log charges on the charger as the data on the screen shows what I want. Individual cell voltages, ir readings. Ir readings on the revo batteries were good. Better than my thor packs when they were new. The only other low ir I have seen came from spyder packs which have over 100 cycles on each of them.

Now back to the poking fun. Cough cough dark side calling mtour.....

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by Digger1973

I didnt have a cable for the pl6 to swap out the lead since it uses a slimmer plug than the duo does. Otherwise I think it would of been solved weeks ago.

Spares are handy for testing, always. Shipping from the US vendors (ProgressiveRC, BuddyRC, etc) is usually within days. Parts shipped quickly, problems solved or progress made quickly, more time for flying....

[Ace Dude]

Hi Digger1973, Still looking for the data that shows what you're experiencing. If you have data showing what you've stated:

"Pl6 took them out of balance drastically and I have seen a cell or cells get over discharged from the pl6 not doing its job and saying they were charged."

We'd love to see it. Do you have anything you can provide? Graphing charges and discharges on the PowerLabs using the integrated Charge Control Software (CCS) is very easy and should require minimal effort on your part.