What's this manouver called and What's this maneuver called and how do I do it?

[AndrejaKo]

First, sorry for broken title!

I'm flying an E-Sky Hunter co-axial helicopter which is a Lama V4 derivative. I'm waiting for some parts to arrive for my helicopter and in the meantime, I want to practice some moves on a simulator.

I already got simple maneuvers right on the helicopter such as flying in different directions, doing figure 8 and other simple stuff.

So after all this exposition, here comes my question itself:
I've seen a guy on Youtube (lost the link, sorry) do pictured maneuvers with Lama V4, so I'm wondering how do I do them myself?

Here's the first maneuver:



The nose is normal to the tangent of the circle and the helicopter is rotating along the circle.


Here's the second:



The tail is normal to the tangent of the circle and the helicopter is rotating along the circle.
I think I've got the second maneuver on the simulator by pushing the aileron to the right, rudder to the right and elevator to the back.


I still have no idea how to get the first maneuver.

Also any tips on maneuvers I should learn to do first before trying this would be welcome.

[clicky]

Wouldn't that be a funnel or flatter version - a pie dish? (tail in or nose in)

[AndrejaKo]

Yes, it does seem to be close to the pie dish description, except this was done with the helicopter parallel to the ground.

So any ideas how to do the nose in version of this, at least on the simulator?

[aja1216]

I think I may know what your talking about. Do you move the Heli Around while the nose or the tail is pointed at a fixed point in the middle of the circle?

[AndrejaKo]

Yes, that's how the video looked like (all I did was find a nice video of a very similar helicopter).

Another member PMed me some instructions on how to do this and they look promising. I'll report back after trying them out in a simulator.

[Rªzª]

If the heli needs to be parallel to the ground this is not a true funnel or banked turn it's simply a "slew" (or strafe) to the side with rudder inputs to keep the heli (nose or tail) pointed towards the center.

So in the first example you'd use left aileron to slew sideways to the left and use right rudder to keep the nose pointed "in"

The second example the aileron is reversed because the tail is now "in" but rudder will be the same since you're still going clockwise. So right aileron and right rudder.

[AndrejaKo]

It's not that actually.

A fellow user named clicky (Thanks a lot clicky!) managed to explain it to me how to do it.


Here's the idea how to do it:

First step is to simply strafe left or right and keep altitude.
Next step is to do step one but keep nose pointed to one point as you yourself said.
The third step is to do the same thing but bring elevator into equation and keep everything synchronized so that the nose or the tail make complete circles.

So in the first example, I'd use left aileron, right rudder and back or forward elevator depending on the need (both work in simulator, but one is better when I need to keep distance close to the circle and one works better when I want to keep long distance) to keep the distance between the nose and the point constant. This way, I get complete circles in simulator.

[Rªzª]

elevator inputs are not all that necessary to do a flat circle it's used more for minor corrections. the better you get at "steering" correctly with the rudder the less compensation you'll need with the elevator. that's the only reason i left that part out. it's an extra input you'll learn to do without anyways.

if you want an analogous maneuvar just think of doing a very slow nose forward circle. you just tap forward to move along and use rudder inputs to keep the nose going around. Aileron inputs will not be needed as much. You're doing the exact same thing here just sideways...

[clicky]

Not sure if it is applicable to coaxials (and sim! LOL) but I found that the way our rc helicopters are configured they have tendency to pitch up (nose up) in CCW tail in or CW nose in pirouettes. That makes CCW tail in and CW nose in upright funnels much easier (for me). Similarly, in inverted it is CW for tail in and CCW for nose in funnels...

For instance, mSR is quite a good example where that behavior is quite visible...

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by clicky

Not sure if it is applicable to coaxials (and sim! LOL) but I found that the way our rc helicopters are configured they have tendency to pitch up (nose up) in CCW tail in or CW nose in pirouettes. That makes CCW tail in and CW nose in upright funnels much easier (for me). Similarly, in inverted it is CW for tail in and CCW for nose in funnels...

For instance, mSR is quite a good example where that behavior is quite visible...

It is not at all applicable to coaxes. The behaviour you describe is caused by the tail rotor, notice when you hover that it is not quite vertical but at a slight angle. This, combined with the fact that the tail is not usually aligned with CoG, causes the change in attitude when adding rudder.

This does not happen with a coax, as yaw is caused by varied main rotor torque. Also Phoenix certainly does not seem to emulate this (I can piro flat and steady all day in the sim but wobble all over the place even with the SK720 i use in SL mode).

can you even do a funnel with a coax? I would think the pendulum effect of the long main shaft would be fighting you the whole way?