Frenzy Electric now available at HK

[Mr Nice Guy]

Just saw this. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=14362 Looks pretty nice but I think I'd upgrade the blade grips to the metal ones. Already has the metal tailcase so that's sweet. Also has a Torque Tube instead of a belt.

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello MrNiceGuy,

Looks cool the new Frenzy600 TT .. only dislike is the name .. it's not a 600 .. it's a 50' class bird

I also saw HK now having the Frenzy90 TT-version .. what I do not undertsand is, why the F90V2 costs USD 240.- and the F90-TT costs USD 380.- ..

Pretty sure buying a F90-V2 and adding the parts for TT costs less than USD 140.- (= 380 - 240) ? ..

Thanks for the post,
Best Regards,

Oliver

[Mr Nice Guy]

From what I've heard the TT Frenzy has a whole different frame set and can't be easily converted over. This was for the 50 though so I don't know about the 90. It's a shame as I'd upgrade my 50 if it was doable. Oh well.

-Lee

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello MrNiceGuy,

If not modular in the sense of a TT-mod this is pretty thumb from JS, not only because customer dislike that, than as well JS (and dealers) having more parts to store than necessary. This is never an issue at the beginning of a manufacturer's life, but after some product cycles this get's a pain for manufacturers and dealers .. e.g. take ALIGN with it's 450 class - more than 10 different models and dealers having to store for the last 4 to 5 models? ..

@all:

My Frenzy90-V2 is still underway, but what I'm observing since 1 month is not very promising. Whether amainhobbies.com or HK, both have stock-outs of half of the F90-V2 parts .. and this now for definetly more than 4 weeks (it's more than 7 weeks now). .. IMO this is no fault of AH or HK, then clearly an issue at JS, that never seems to have heard about small lot-size production for fast stock-replenishment and low capital binding.

The consequence of this will be, that anyone in need of spares will place bulk-orders (e.g. not ordering just one main shaft than a few) and this way JS will produce in larges lots (and long replenishment times as well). I know we are in bad times (very bad indeed) - but exactly for this reason it makes sense to deliver small lots in shorter time to the dealers?

Dear JS, a great bird even at low cost won't do it, if people need to wait weeks for spares .. a bird sitting on the ground is even less dammaged/ crashed and so you loose more business

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: No compatibility of TT with V2 makes the above replenishment issue worse too.

[SkyGerbil]

Great reasoning, Raptor, but have you communicated your thoughts to JS Models?
I am pretty certain that if they are working on phasing out 90 v2, that would be because they believe in its financial unviability. A strong letter campaign can make them change their minds. Of course they may want to do it to get rid of cheap-as-chips v2 in favour of noticeably more expensive but hardly more expensive to produce 90 TT, in which case we are screwed...

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello Sky,

Haven't yet contacted JS, the good news is, we have Amainhobbies which is by far a more reliable partner for our hobby than HobbyKing. IMO Amainhobbies won't let us hang with the F90-V2. I bought a F90-V2 because it was always my dream to fly a 90' size bird - do love the power-to-weight-ratio and the very especial sound ..

.. but I would never ever have paid for a 90' size bird what all other brands want you to pay - as the price adder from 50' to 90' is not material cost nor that much labour, then just marketing setting price correspondingly .. the Frenzy 90-V2 with kit price of USD 239.- seemed very reasonably to me and the spares are really cheap-as-chips (I love that expression).. need to test both (bird's performance and price/ quality).

I don't wan't to bash, but looking at the economic situation and considering the fact, that it is always very hard to increase prices again after you had them low for a long time (even though the price increase comes with a *new model* and by +58%) .. I'm pretty sure the new price for the F90-TT will be corrected downwards again .. anyway, hope the tail-belt works well and I won't need a TT.

Merry X-Mas to you all,
Oliver

P.S: I hope JS is that smart to recognise, that most hobby-modelers won't forget it, if JS plays around with us .. fool me once .. fool my twice .. nope

[JRAllen]

Are they going to come out with a simple electric conversion for the 50? That would be great.

[3d-wanna-b]

That be nice but I doubt they will considering how easy it is now to convert the 50 to electric.. I'm currently converting one now.

[JRAllen]

3d-wanna-b,

I was going to but don't know where to start. Had one guy helping me on RR but he only replyied to a post monthly. I have the HK 600 motor that I am sure would fly it. Can you post some pics or email them to me. iwantafly@triad.rr.com

Thanks,
JRAllen

[mattsergo60]

Originally Posted by Raptor30_V1

Hello MrNiceGuy,

Looks cool the new Frenzy600 TT .. only dislike is the name .. it's not a 600 .. it's a 50' class bird
Best Regards,
Oliver

OK I'll bite. What is your idea of the difference between a 600 machine VS a 50 class machine?
I was of the understanding that the "600" name ,came from "electric" birds ( motor size?). Of course "50" comes from the nitros motor size.
They both fly 600mm blades.
The Trex600N has a 50 motor in it ,but is called a 600? Is this not a 50 class bird?

[mattsergo60]

True 500
(.30 Class)

600 Size
(.50 Class)
700 Size
(.60-.90 Class)

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello Matt,

Good point

Let me put it this way: I bought in 2006 the first Align helicopter, the 450X (I´m in that hobby for longer than that) .. and it looked like a mini-Raptor with mechanical Pitch-mixing ..

No doubt, Align did a great job in marketing its products (excellent - altough already saturated). Sure, electric helicopters needed a new class definition .. and as ALIGN took its 450 size to scale it to larger and smaller size, the used a different convention, than most of us nitro guys where used to. My first understanding was, that the ALIGN (and some others) size nomination was just main-blade size, but looking e.g. at the 450 size makes clear, this can not be the reason, as 450 size use main blades way shorter than 450mm? Take a 500 size .. same reasoning .. main blades 430mm..

So looks like the real size definition pattern is the tail-boom length - might be true, but whom of us measures tail-boom sizes? IMO, as a 15 years before electro-heli dinosaur, this notations make sense to have a description of electric helicopters .. but there is a lot of marketing trying to overcome old and settled nitro convention by ALIGN to spread their notification. So they call it T-Rex600 Nitro XY, but it is a 50 size heli

So it is not a 600 for me (and for anybody in this hobby for longer than 6 years), it is a 50 size nitro bird .. else we would need to speak about 620, as engine power and related main blade size increases and 620 (in main blades) makes more sense then 600mm (this is 46 nitro size) .. so in short, it is a clever move of ALIGN, to introduce a new notification for helicopters (call it a psycological momentum) - very usefull to crowd out succesors as ThunderTiger and others. But as their notification is not common sense (most people think about main-blade size - wrong) .. why accept this?

I would do it the same way (as ALIGN) - try to extinct any old notation and to implant the new one in people´s mind

But as the new one is not corect (for smallers size than 600) - why accept it? Or does anybody measure his tail-boom length when answering what size he is flying?

So, I am not flying a 600 size - as a nitro guy .. I always fly a 30, 50 or 90 size bird .. but definetly not a 550, 600 or 700 size .. or do you say to have a T-Rex-690 .. just because installing 690mm instead of 700mm maines?

It all started with nitros (thank you Dieter Schlüter) .. and not with electric (although I understand they have their advantages) ..

What´s a former 60 class nitro bird ? A 640 class ?

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: To much marketing meanwhile and no common-sense .. we need solutions serving us .. and not just any so called innovation to push sales and no real value

PPS: Your picture of a Raptor-30 corresponds to a 550 electric size - main-blade wise.. but power wise a 550-electric is 50 size up ?

[mattsergo60]

Raptor_30v1
-point of view-
I started flying in 94. I flew up until my son arrived in 2000. I sorta fell out and did not see what the market was doing,or where the heli scene was headed. So basically I left the hobby flying 30's and 60's(missed the 70 size revolution). WOW , when I stepped back in everything was 50's and 90's and these wierd 600 machines
I agree with you ,about the Align marketing coersion and new notification for helis.
And yes, it does not make alot of sense,but I have come to accept it.
You see, I have been in the hobby longer than 6 yrs . and 250/450/500/600/700 all designate ELECTRICS to me, while 30/46/50/60/90 all designate NITRO'S.
Now we just need Align to label the TREX 600 N , a TREX 50 and all should be good again?
Back to the topic though, the TZ (electric) can ,and maybe should be labeled a 600. If not for anything else, then just to differentiate it as an electric.
To me 600-vs-50 just makes more sense than 600e-vs-600N or 50e-vs-50N

ps. Sorry we got started on the wrong foot in another post.

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello Matt,

I did not feel offended by your previous post ..

The 600-nomification of the related Frenzy makes sense indeed .. as hopefully spares will be numbered/ named differently. This is pretty important for some people, as I remember e.g. the ALIGN T600 electro and nitro parts being mistakenly taken from each other (e.g. main shaft) when some people pick up spares at their LHS.

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: It was a good move to have a spare-part locator on ALIGNs web-page, else the confusion about different versions and their parts would be a big mess ..
PPS: I did not relate of being for a long time in this hobby to say that I have so much experience .. then just to say old dinosaurs don't like a manufacturer to change (related to nitros unnecessary) a nomification that makes sense

[mattsergo60]

I just picked up a Frenzy Electric. Looks pretty good so far. Tons of room to mount equipment,unlike the HK600. It comes with a 10 tooth pinion which is supported by a bearing block

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello Matt,

Congrats .. Please post some pics later on ..

Have lots of fun with your new bird,
Oliver

[mattsergo60]

Just got my frenzy 600E together. I am still waiting on the motor. Converted it to 140 deg. ccpm . I wonder why the parts that come in metal on the Frenzy nitro kits are plastic on this kit? The elevator lever ,bearing blocks ,and rotor grips are some of them. Also the plastic ball links are SOOOOOO tight that I broke a set of ball link pliers. Once popped on they are free,but are extremely tight getting on. My other TZ's are tight getting the links on ,but nothing like these. It also comes with the plastic canopy,and not a fiberglass one like the ad says. I do not think the fiberglass one will fit because the frames are wider? I will post a pic when finished. If it flies as good as my other TZ's I will probably have an HK 600 GT for sale.

[mattsergo60]

I have been looking at the pinion gear that comes with this heli.It appears to be a perfect candidate for an Ergo (E) conversion ( once I get the motor plate made) Problem is this. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SPARE PARTS FOR THIS THING( js 600e FRENZY)????????????????

[Raptor30_V1]

Hello Matt,

You're right, couldn't see the ones selling the kits, as well selling spares

Took a look at:

- USA: amainhobbies.com .. as they do not have the e-version kits, they do not stock the spares neither

- UK: http://www.tzheli.com/ .. sells Sharks and Frenzies .. don't know the Sharks (?) and never bought at this European distributor

- Spain: http://www.heli-system.com/ .. IMO the guy behind or someone close to them writes here or on RR ? (web site in Spanish - if you need a translator for some questions let me know)

- Asia: Hobbyking .. what shall I say .. shame on them, time inbetween offering kits and stocking spares is way to long .. and if they have spares, there stock management is PITA

Best Regards,
Oliver

P.S: Made a larger spare parts order for my Frenzy-90V2 .. waiting for 2 months now .. just because since 1 month main-shafts do not seem to be on stock .. w/o spare-parts availability it doesn't matter if a bird is a bargain or not, just useless

[mattsergo60]

Thanks for the links , I will check them out.
Spare parts availibility was the main reason I held off so long before buying my first TZ