Aerial Photography These Days

[Mapoff]

Is it me, or is there much less sharing these days? Its like everyone has either figured it out and doesn't ask questions, or they figured it out and don't want anyone to know the things they found out.

I'm still a single rotor guy til death do us part. Figured Id share something AP related. Im using a Freefly HDMI converter because the cheapies didn't work with the GH2. It was $149. Its a board with a mini hdmi just soldered on the board with no strain relief. I've seen alot of products like this for keeping the weight down. Well I had snapped mine right off by accident. I ended up having enough leads in place that I wanted to solder it back on. The problem is, its too small to really see with my eyes or a magnifier. What I did is cake the whole thing with solder. Then I took a copper solder wick and sucked up the excess. Bang. Looks like I saved my precious.

I also found that the iphone 6 has an extremely good digital/optical zoom that was better than anything I had magnifying wise. If I had a holder for the phone that I could swivel around you probably don't need a magnifying glass.

[helicek]

Hi Mapoff,
I follow AP related posts on runryder and helifreak. It has gone very quiet past 2 years. I have switched from gas helis to electric that I am very happy with. I also fly multis. I get few jobs because there are so many AP’ers and I can not compete with below the waist prices.
It is nice of you to air your topic.
Cheers,
Ahmet

[ignaceous]

Originally Posted by Mapoff

Is it me, or is there much less sharing these days? Its like everyone has either figured it out and doesn't ask questions, or they figured it out and don't want anyone to know the things they found out.

I think it's you. The world of FPV continues to grow exponentially with technology in a collision course towards singularity, just not in the Heli direction, at least it seems. I mean, why would someone subject themselves to such a demanding platform they'll end up DIY'ing 99% of instead of dishing out the cash all at once and getting an RTF drone that can be flown while holding a beer in one hand? I just saw this drone that doesn't need a remote at all and follows you around all day.

This being said, anyone can easily argue that you sticking to Helis till the end makes you not just a dinosaur, but a stubborn one. I say this without any sense of guilt because I'm that same type of dinosaur. Probably even worse, because in my case I can't even bring myself to consider paying for hardware/software (i.e. stabilization gear) that engineers away half of what I find fun in the hobby. However, to be fair, it's just as easy for me to play devil's advocate and claim that we're just masochists. I mean, I don't even know where to post my questions anymore so I'm pretty much riding on creativity alone here. I've been googling for hours and haven't found any suggestions for upgrading my AR7200BX controller to a long-range system, or if there are any more asymmetrical 325 blades in existence.

On a more positive note, think we should start our own thread and share our rare victories over physics after every successful upgrade. With a little time and luck, we might get the entire Heli FPV community to join us. As far as I know, it's us two and three other dinosaurs - one of them lives in Germany and the other 2 are in France. What's even better news is that I know for a fact that at least the french dudes are somewhat mentally stable and will sometimes offer suggestions that won't result in any jailtime.

H.M.E.

[ignaceous]

Correction - 2 other people. The german quit.

[R_Lefebvre]

I disagree. Many more professional UAV companies are starting to look at helicopters again after they realize the limitations of multirotors. It's just happening quietly for now.

This isn't a consumer drone thing. But professionals.

When I show them things like this, they are sold. This is a Trex 500, weighs the same as a Phantom.

Arducopter TradHeli Wind Demo (1 min 42 sec)

[R_Lefebvre]

Or this. This is a really horrible video, I need to get a better video of this (I had to bail out on this attempt). But basically, a Goblin 380, again same weight as a Phantom, flying at 75mph fully automatic with 1G accelerations and cornering, for 5 minutes.

This was shot for a virtual air-race flying a 200mx200m Figure 8 pattern, 5 laps, automatic take-off and landing. I absolutely crushed the quadcopters with a time of 281 seconds compared to a best of about 350-400 from them. I was only beat by a very fast flying wing.

T3 Figure 8 (1 min 11 sec)

[ignaceous]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

I disagree. Many more professional UAV companies are starting to look at helicopters again after they realize the limitations of multirotors. It's just happening quietly for now.

This isn't a consumer drone thing. But professionals.

When I show them things like this, they are sold. This is a Trex 500, weighs the same as a Phantom.

Arducopter TradHeli Wind Demo - YouTube

Very impressive. I didn't even know that technology was already available. As far as I knew it had all stopped with the NazaH. As far as the fast wing, I bet it can't stop in mid-air the same way your heli can.

A small portion of my hope has been restored, now that I know there are others out there who know helis can be much more than just cowd-pleasing acrobatic monkeys. If helis manage to claim at least a small fraction of the AP market, then maybe, just maybe, Spinblades will at least consider resuming production of their 325/350mm asymmetrical blades again. Crossing fingers.


Cheers.

[stmpngrnd]

I'll never let it die either although as Rob stated it's definitely going the direction of the professionals that need more or should I say specific qualities that a multi rotor can not provide. I'm fortunate to be working on some projects for a couple of pros right now.

[stmpngrnd]

Originally Posted by ignaceous

If helis manage to claim at least a small fraction of the AP market, then maybe, just maybe,....


Cheers.

Lets not forget that AP pretty much started on single rotor helis over a decade ago!

[ignaceous]

Originally Posted by stmpngrnd

I'll never let it die either although as Rob stated it's definitely going the direction of the professionals that need more or should I say specific qualities that a multi rotor can not provide. I'm fortunate to be working on some projects for a couple of pros right now.

Well, I have no plans on letting it go anytime soon either, not after managing to get 11.5 minutes half mile flight on the stock 3S 2200 mAh lipo, thanks in part to this little stunt I managed after months of frustrating Google searches.



Working on doubling the flight time in the near future with a 5000mAh 3S from Stone Blue Airlines before figuring out where I can find a long range receiver that I can pair with my AR7200BX. This should turn out to be interesting, regardless of the outcome.

hme

[Mapoff]

I'm going to my grave with my single rotor. This clip is straight out of the camera except for the cuts. Its being used in a movie called Badge of Faith that should be coming out soon.

https://vimeo.com/105862199

[skyhigh]

I fly my headtracking FPV helicopters almost every weekend still for years. I have 250, 500, 600, and 800 size. I can strap a GoPro on and get some decent aerial imagery.

I too will go to the grave with my collective pitch rotorcraft. If I could only have one FPV platform, the choice is so very easy: collective pitch rotorcraft specifically our helicopters. Its like I'm in a sci-fi vehicle.

I do have one quadcopter with the same FPV headtracking just to test things out. Its usually my guinea pig test vehicle and is the first to go up after I finish setting up the base station! They do have some use. ;-)

[R_Lefebvre]

I gave up on the semi-symmetric blades. False advertising IMO. I get the exact same flight time on standard blades, just using more pitch.

[ignaceous]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

I gave up on the semi-symmetric blades. False advertising IMO. I get the exact same flight time on standard blades, just using more pitch.

I even have my own opinions for that matter - I think they add to the bird's looks as they are a better match for the skids/tail fin. I also like the fact that they're wider which makes my 450 look beefier.

As far as physics, the current set has survived 3 crashes so far, the same type of crashes I would have easily (and have) lost standard CF's.

As far as flight times I'm not sure. I was able to account for longer flight times due to headspeed/pitch adjustments on the stock blades, and dropping a tooth off the pinion.
I still have an extra average of 2.5 - 3 minutes to account for after installing them but I'm can't be sure of what's responsible for that. Perhaps scalar differential (is that even a legitimate phrase?) over manned aircrafts renders their asymmetry irrelevant, and their extra weight over carbon fibers is the real factor, or something else I'm missing.
Regardless, their (Spinblades') claim on their website that they may increase flight times to 100% raises a flag for me and stops me from awarding them the credit for the extra unaccounted for flight time.

So in response to your opinion, the only legitimate counter-opinion I have is that IMO they're worth it because they're durable, and pretty.

[Carapau]

Well, I have now been flying RC helis for 6-7 years and doing professional AP for 3. My single rotors have been retired from AP work. Too much maintenance, too many single points of failure and whilst I thought my Rush 750 was going to be what separated me from the boys the reality is that 99.999% of shots required within filming where the shot is there to tell the story, not to show of flying ability, the multirotor does it every time. There will of course be the odd shot that a single rotor could do the shot where the MR couldnt but in all of the work I have done I have yet to be asked to do that shot.

Nice video of the Trex 500 flying but there is no gimbal on there and it is not flying anything remotely like that which is required in filming so yes, it looks more manoeuverable (because it is) but this doesn't translate into what counts in the filming world ie useable footage.

I like the shot you did following the car but an MR would have achieved exactly the same all be it in a much safer manner.

[stmpngrnd]

Originally Posted by Carapau

I like the shot you did following the car but an MR would have achieved exactly the same all be it in a much safer manner.

...more safe by what means? Every brand of multi FC has proven susceptible to fly-a-ways and the flip of death. I've never seen a heli FBL unit fail in such a manner. Go over to RCG and there are hundreds if not thousands of accounts of multirotor failures of every nature.

While helis are mechanically more complex....they are as a SYSTEM far more reliable than any multi. Servo failures are rare, gyro failures are rare. Only in the harshest of 3D abuse do you see tail strikes or other mechanical breakdowns. And in most cases anything short of a tail strike you can auto to safety if you have even moderate piloting skills. I've witnessed head links pop off in flight and the pilot still getting the bird on the ground in one piece. Multirotor esc's going up in smoke, motors burning up, props coming off in flight and the all to famous fly-a-ways are reported quite frequently. And if a multi suffers any sort of a failure in flight its a brick at that point.

I've built airframes for clients who fly both helis and multis. Hate to say it but they have spent thousands of $$$ on top of the line multi FC of every brand and they have all failed at some point while on the job with 10's of thousands worth of gear on board. But their vbar, SK720 and helicommands have never done so.

Multis are popular because they do not require any piloting skills when relying on gps and stabilized flight modes. Heli can fly FBL without aid of an FC. I and many others have done it and it dates back several decades. I once flew an entire mild 3D flight without the FBL unit...after landing I realized that the SK360 was still in setup mode and deactivated! If it weren't for a bit of ballooning in FFF I wouldn't have noticed anything strange. Thats because a heli doesn't need a computer aided autopilot to fly. Multis are inherently unstable without a multiprocessor driven auto pilot in the loop and that is a scientific fact.

The ease of operation for a multi is actually another and most dangerous point of failure..operator error. How many youtube videos are there of multis crashing into houses, parked cars and other objects? Far to many to count. Heck there is even a video up of a "pro" crashing into the house he was being paid to film with an Inspire.
And its never the operators fault because its their perception that they are just supposed to work all the time. Heli pilots are way more likely to admit when they "dumb thumb it". Pilot error for some reason is much more admitted to in the heli community.

Im not anti multi. I believe in both platforms for their specific and unique qualities. But these all too common blanket statements about on or the other really get under my skin ...sorry

Im going to stop now because this is turning into a rant....

[R_Lefebvre]

You are right. The perceived ease of use of multirotors lead many newcomers into the industry, who then crash due to pilot error long, long before a helicopter would have suffered a mechanical failure.

That being said, "flyaways" are very unlikely on most flight controllers. There is only one brand that seems to consistently suffer from this problem. <cough>

Nice video of the Trex 500 flying but there is no gimbal on there and it is not flying anything remotely like that which is required in filming so yes, it looks more manoeuverable (because it is) but this doesn't translate into what counts in the filming world ie useable footage.

What's your point? Have you ever seen a multirotor flying that well without a gimbal? No.

And trust me, that helicopter can make any movement you want it to for filming. It's the same flight code as is running the Solo:

Solo In Malta - Smart Shots with Solo Gimbal (3 min 53 sec)

[stmpngrnd]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

That being said, "flyaways" are very unlikely on most flight controllers. There is only one brand that seems to consistently suffer from this problem. <cough>

Rob you are right. I was just trying to speak generally and not name a specific brand for that particular affliction. But I will go on record and say that my clients have had the flip of death with DJI A2, WooKong, Skookum, Pixhawk and Xaircraft. One in particular is now moving on to the synapse as there is nothing left to try.

[R_Lefebvre]

I would be interested to see logs from the FOD reported on Pixhawk. If it is a genuine FOD not caused by a hardware failure or high vibrations, then it would be one of very, very few issues.

[Koippa]

You are right that helis can fly all and better than multis. It was only now some thing that all must do with multis. They are so easy to fly, if all goes OK. But i think that everyone who has multis, have some failures of FC. With traditional helis in normal flying, there is almost no failures at all. Some radio failures can be, but no mecanical failures. Because they are designed for hard 3D, all parts are at vacation in aerial filming. Only thing what needs more precision is take spool-up and take of.

Second thing what is better with who soots with helis, is piloting skills. Most of multi pilot who are filming, are flying less than 2 years now.

We are also prove with SkyCat, that you can use safety parachute. First test was made with flybarred Trex, and it was flying after 2 drops.

I have made system for underslung gimbal and retractable legs for helis so it can do same thing like multis. 360deg area of shoot. It have pixhawk controller and can fly autonomous missions. Gimbal was tested to 600mm focal lenght and it's stable. And all was done with gas engine. System can easily modified for larger helis, like turbine or twin engine.