Throttle and pitch curves...grrrr

[douglas4]

Ok guys I have tried way to many throttle and pitch curves found online, its not funny, and I just can't seem to tame the head speed on my blade 450. I can't seem to get the right combination. I have 65 D/R, Expo 35% on all except the RUDD. I'm using the blade 400 default swash mix's instead of the default blade 450 swash mixes for the intermediate settings in the manual...I have the flybar weights all the way out (doesn't affect head speed just makes it more mushy feeling)...I'm using weighted CF paddles.(doesn't affect head speed just makes it more mushy feeling). My last resort....I think is to change the Pin gear to a "9" tooth and replace the ESC with an ESC with a throttle governor to bring down the head speed. I'm getting to my wits end here. Any advice.....? This thing is a beast compared to my Blade 400.

[BrokeDad]

You need to go into the ESC and edit the governor settings there.

[Thomas.Heiss]

What is your exact RPM headspeed? 2400? 2700? 3000? >3000?

What is your CCPM mix for AIL + ELEV? 2x 85%?

On my Devo with DeviationTX i am e.g on CCPM 50%+50% for cyclics and 70% for collective.

This gives me about ~6 degree cyclic and max collective (I guess it was about ~10 degree) without any bindings on swash, pitch lever arms or blade holder, if I meassured correctly.


11-12 degree collective + 7-8 degree cyclic is IMHO unrealistic for this Blade 4503D heli and it's head construction.

I even had to use special variable flybar linkages instead of Blade's fixed one - otherwise I could not get rid of double/triple bindings.

2015 the 4503D was THAT tame - compared to Blade manual's suggestions and a view flights in 2012.

Just to get you some ideas...

70D/R, 30% expo...
You can't do really much more.


Measure your concrete RPM! - I was astonished when we found out that my heli was running on about 3100-3200RPM :-)

Thomas

[douglas4]

Well after much fiddling around. I've had the "Eureka" moment on both my birds. Blade 450 with a 9 tooth pin gear....and Blade 400 using the stock 10 tooth pin gear....both running 3S 2200mah 35C Lipos. I have D/R 65% and 35% on Ail, Elev, 100% and 30% on RUDD on both helis.

Here's my throttle and pitch curves for both:

T 0 36 72 72 72
P 17, 27.5, 52.5, 77.5 ,100

Both feel really good in the air...stable and solid with no bad tendencies. I did it...finally. I so happy. hehe.

As far as what the pitch range is...I haven't got a clue...all I know is they fly fine with what I have them set up with in my DX6i...and I don't have a pitch gauge. My tracking is spot on using eye site with neutral pitch at half stick...by siting the blades on the bench. As well at half stick all my servos are at 90% including the tail servo and I have good rudder throw both sides. To do this I set both throttle and pitch curves to linear all around...then centered the servos at half stick. Once I was done with that....I leveled my swash plate by site alone...and adjusted the links....I have very little trim values on my TX and the helis hover pretty much hands off...with very little stick correction. Works for me.

Doug

[Thomas.Heiss]

You really should meassure your cyclic pitch.
8 degree is more agile than 6 degree.

72% throttle? On the 420H?
I can remember from 2012 that it was agile.

Can`t compare exact RPM as the KDS motor is different.

So are you now on ~3000RPM or 2400-2700RPM with that 72% throttle?

[douglas4]

My blade 450 has a higher head speed with 72%, off course, given the ESC has no governor mode, than my 400. The 400 I bought from another member on Rcgroups, had installed an Align 35amp ESC that makes the head speed seem more manageable....He must have programmed it somehow to be at the lower end of governor mode or something....? My 400 is really nice to fly, less intimidating. It doesn't give me the pucker factor like the 450 does when I take er up. I have no idea what the RPM is at this point, all I know is they both fly fine. I'm not really into the Uber technical aspect of it all....I'm more mechanical than technical....all I know is what I have works for me. It gives me the feel on the sticks that makes me more comfortable with flying. I dunno how more to put it...lol.

[BrokeDad]

Just curious. I see your avatar is a flybarred heli. Are both of them flybar or flybarless ? My 400 3D is a stock Blade flybar and my 450X is actually a custom flybarless build made from parts and not actually an out of box Blade. The 400 is much calmer and gentler to fly where as the 450X is a screaming beast by comparison.

[douglas4]

Ya I'm not fond of the blade 450X at all. Ya my 450 is a beast compared to the B400 I have. Yes the heli in my avatar is the B400 I bought at rcgroups. Both my heli's are flybarred. I may go flybarless with out any stabilization using weighted blades..I read something about this online that I thought was intriguing...I think it was here at helifreak...? Any who my goal for this "Winter" is to put something in a scale body...not sure yet which one its going to be. I just bought this for spare parts:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hobbies-craft...ationFlag=true

and may buy this one too:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hobbies-craft...ationFlag=true

Can't have enough spare parts around in this hobby.

[Mr.D 4511]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm....wait till you drop a 450h motor in with a 12 t pinion......MONSTEROUS HORSE POWER!!

[douglas4]

I have a 9 tooth in my 450 now with the stock 420 motor. I tweaked my curves and D/R and expo values:

D/R 65% Expo 35% all around.
RUDD 100% INH

T 0 35 65 65 65
P 18 25 50 75 100

I also have a set of Extreme production 315 mm blades on it, carbon fiber paddles with fly-bar weights all the way out. I like the way it feels...fly's like its on rails for me. I'm not a 3D flyer and have no desire to so at all...never did, never will. I'm just a slow old man type of flyer...lol. I still have a few things to get for this first B450. I plan on going flybarless with the second B450 I bought and do some small upgrades to that. I'm not sure if I'm gonna go DFC or non-DFC though..to me it doesn't matter I don't fly 3D . I've had 30+ flights on both my B400 and B450 without mishap. I just don't fly outside my comfort zone and don't do anything stupid with my birds. And there is never a dull moment. Some pics of my B400 and B450.

[Copternewbi]

Think I'll give these throttle and pitch curves a try, the stock ones in the book are a little scary for me. Unfortunately I crashed it last month and still waiting for some parts to rebuild the servos.


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[douglas4]

Well I made a few changes. I must have bent the spindle on my blade 400....so I took off the cnc rotor head I had on it and replaced it with the Blade 450 rotor head I had from the other B450 I bought for parts. Blades tracking perfect and hover just at half stick. I also added the Trex vertical fin to it and got a new canopy as the old one was cracked alot. Now I have a Trex wanna be. I also took off the extreme production blades I had on my working B450 and went back to the woodies. I also have HS65HB's installed on the B450. I programmed the B450 to all the manual settings except the throttle curve and D/R and expo which is:

T 0 52 72 72 72......D/R values at 65%/35%. Feels good with the woodies back on.

I straightened the spindle on the cnc head with a flat brick and a hammer, its nice and straight now, I'm just waiting over night for the blue thread lock to cure on the spindle screws so I can reinstall the cnc head back on my blade 400 and do a few test flights.

[Copternewbi]

Wow, nice work. Good idea with the brick and hammer! Glad to see I'm not the only one to use methods like that to fix things!


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