START HERE |
|
Register | FAQ | PM | Events | Groups | Blogs | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
Unregistered
|
Newbies: Tips and Information Section of HF, specifically for Passing along info to newcomers to the hobby. Setup, tweaking, orientation practice, etc. |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
07-25-2015, 08:18 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Join Date: Dec 2014
|
what do i need to do
have a trex 450plus fbl heli with gpro. Have beginner settings of 0deg to 9deg pitch and 0-80% throttle. have gpro on beginner settings. I am doing lazy 8's with tail in and do fine until heli is on my left side, farthest from me and I start to come back toward me on the diagonal. the tail seems to go left coming back and when I correct a bit and even if I don't use rudder at all the tail moves enough that instead of tail in its at 90deg to me. I have played with gyro sens a bit from 66 to 72 and it still does it. do I need more or less or do something in gpro?
|
Sponsored Links | |||
Advertisement |
|
07-25-2015, 08:59 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Join Date: Jun 2015
|
Do you set the tail in rate mode? i was having some issues with the tail bouncing when I apply right rudder and acting weird. Take the heli in rate mode and hover it(rate mode is when the status light in the gpro is red). The heli should not turn right or left. The gpro on this setting will not compensate. If its drifting to one side adjust the pushrod leaving the servo at 90 degrees so its hover with out turning left or right.
Also i don't use beginner settings they where giving me some trouble.
__________________
Blade Nano CP-X, Trex 500 Clone |
07-26-2015, 04:57 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
|
I have set it up in rate mode as much as possible. will hover and spin in a very slow circle, if I move servo anymore I wont have any left slider movement on tail and it still does ok on lazy 8 tail ins except for left side farthest from me coming diagonal toward me nose turns left and when I correct with rudder it will still jump back after I release gimbal? I also went in gpro and reset default settings instead of beginner. that didn't help either. any other sugestions?? should I go ikon or ?
|
07-26-2015, 05:20 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Registered Users
|
Sounds like something is not right with your tail mechanically. You said that when you set it up in rate mode until it stays put, you run out of tail slider movement. That is not right at all and may well be the cause of your tail issues. What may be your issue is that the tail grips are on backwards. The tail on the Trex 450 is leading edge control so if you have set it up with trailing edge control (tail grips backwards) it will not have enough pitch on the blades when the slider is roughly at the center of the shaft to counter the torque of the main rotor. You can refer to the manual to see if you have yours as it should be.
The GPro is a great FBL unit for the type of flying you are doing. I suggest you stay with it and keep the money to use it towards spare parts you may need in the future. Hope this helps you a bit.
__________________
Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
07-26-2015, 05:50 PM | #5 (permalink) | ||
HF Support
|
Quote:
Quote:
1) How much movement do you have in the tail slider? (in mm - always measure from the boom to the nearest edge of the tail slider) 2) Is middle slider position, 0 degrees tail blade pitch? 3) How far from the boom does the tail slider need to be a neutral position (no rotation in a hover in windless conditions). 4) What speed are you running the main blades at to set neutral position? Ideally, at neutral slider position, the tail servo horn (spindle to connection point) should be 90 degrees to the tail pushrod. Using heading hold, some fly with this being mid slider instead of neutral slider, and it works fine. Last point is that the 450 tail is driven by main motor speed. On a 450, this should be no slower than 2700 RPM ((3500kv * 11.1v * 12t / 121t) * 70%). If the head speed is too low, the tail will not have enough speed to counter the main rotor torque. Never underestimate the value good quality mechanical setup. Bad tail servo, poor belt tension (or TT gear mesh) can play hell with tail performance. Vibrations can also play hell with a gyro (feel boom when running at hover speed with all blades removed). Swapping out FBL unit is usually a last resort unless also unable to tune other aspects to your liking (head wobble, dolphin in FFF, agility, etc...).
__________________
TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
||
07-26-2015, 06:41 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
|
with tail blades at 0deg and basically slider in middle I have about 5mm from boom to edge of slider. when I set up in rate mode (guessing this is neutral) I have about 3mm from boom to edge of slider(this still has a very slow left turn if I move more will lose rudder left rudder movement. I set rate up in basement with just enough throttle to get heli off ground as if I get to high and it turns on me I will probably be repairing it) not sure what head speed is when I set up rate mode but throttle is about 65% to 70% out on my radio when im outside flying lazy 8s. why does it only act up on the one diagonal coming back from left to right?
Last edited by riddle326; 07-26-2015 at 07:42 PM.. |
07-26-2015, 08:08 PM | #7 (permalink) | |
Registered Users
Join Date: Jun 2015
|
Quote:
Here is a photo of my tail pitch needed to correct the problem with the servo at 90 degrees http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...psjardgrpc.jpg
__________________
Blade Nano CP-X, Trex 500 Clone |
|
07-26-2015, 09:26 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
|
yeah servo arm is at 90deg moved servo tail boom mount
|
07-27-2015, 01:00 AM | #9 (permalink) | |
HF Support
|
Quote:
Test with rate mode at head speed you fly at outside (dusk/dawn wind is usually calmest). Face such that any wind is directly toward you, so tail in hover will be into the wind. Rate mode weather veins. Assuming gain is fine, trim should find you tail neutral setting at flying head speed. A mark on the tailshaft where the slider is on landing. This shows the ideal 90 degree pushrod setting at mid-servo. (remove tail trim, adjust servo position or pushrod length to align with the mark). If you fly heading hold, then mid slider for 90 degree pushrod at mid-servo is fine. (This is what I usually set mine to, no flying test required, never had an issue, 130X, 450X, X5 and 700E. I fly heading hold 100% of the time). The acting up on diagonal back is most likely wind, your heli's speed and control. Rate mode likes to weather vein. If not heading 100% into the wind, the tail will want to swing the nose into the wind. If you are travelling slowly (slower than any surrounding wind), or are not lined up properly, the tail will drift. Heading hold should cure this right up (as it enables the heli to travel sideways into the wind with no extra tail input - even allows you to fly backward without having to fight it all the way). However heading hold means you MUST tell the heli which way to point at all times (ie. Will not line up into to the traveling direction for you - eg. a fast (and I do mean fast) forward loop in rate mode is easy if you keep the speed up, not so east to keep online in heading hold).
__________________
TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
|
07-27-2015, 04:05 AM | #10 (permalink) | ||
Registered Users
|
Archmage is right on target!
You need to bump the throttle curve up to a minimum of 80% on this helicopter, That means that at lift off the blades are at 3000 RPM no less. Throttle curve 0 40 80 80 80 the first 80 needs to be no less than 80% no less! Then do a proper setup on the tail.
Then it will work properly. Ron
__________________
Ron Petrolia Ontario Canada. Electric, MCPX-BL,450X, Trex 550E Nitro Hirobo SCEADU Evolution 50 |
||
07-27-2015, 09:50 PM | #11 (permalink) |
Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
|
k will try increasing throttle curve next time im able to get out . I have throttle 0 25 65 75 85 and pitch 50 62 75 85 95 (0deg to +9deg pitch) thx very much for help) pitch curve should still be ok right?
|
07-28-2015, 01:37 AM | #12 (permalink) | |
HF Support
|
Quote:
When flying (especially in the wind). you can find situations where 0 degrees still gives lift. You need the negative to be able to keep control (and enable descent). Negative also helps pin the heli to the ground during spool up (good for wind takeoffs), or sticking (good for wind landings). If you only ever fly scale, then you may want hover at mid stick, but if you plan to fly aerobatics (big air, mild 3D, smack 3D), then you want to mid stick to be 0 and hover above mid stick. I'll assume from this point that at least big air (loops, rolls) is part of your long term plan. (Mild 3D is inverted and or backwards/sideways flying, Smack is piro and aggressive moves). As you progress to you will want to fly idle up. This means you have headspeed all the way through the collective range. In this situation collective pitch is often (0, 25, 50, 75, 100). This enables inverted flight to have as much lift as upright flight. The hold pitch curve is set to match (so if you stop the motor, there are no changes to the collective). The easiest way to ease into this is set the upper half of normal to match (x, x, 50, 75, 100). Next in idle up, the throttle curve on an electric if often flat (85, 85, 85, 85, 85) or (100, 100, 100, 100, 100). sometimes this is held with a governor. As your collective is giving you lift, the upper half of your normal throttle curve should be constant (x, x, 85, 85, 85). This way, when you transition to idle up, it feels the same (no jumps). So if best normal collective is (x, x, 50, 75, 100) and best normal throttle is (y, y, 50, 75, 100), what do we do below mid stick? For collective, we want slight negative (to descend and pin to ground), but not too much (so as to slam the heli downward if we panic and still use the FP/quad response of chop throttle). So a mild negative collective of (30, 40, 50, a, a) is good. (if 100 = +9 pitch, 50 = 0 pitch then 30 = -3.6 pitch). For throttle, we want a start of 0 (so we can hold the stick full down and the engine is stopped, but we want an aggressive start up so that if we need to use some of the negative pitch in flight, we do not loose too much speed and we want it full speed by mid stick. So (0, 65, 85, b, b) is a good throttle curve. Can move slow through the first 25% to build up speed (while heli still pinned to the ground), if straying into next 25% during flight will not lose much head speed. So Ideal normal curves for a 450 electric are: Throttle: (0, 65, 85, 85, 85) Collective: (30, 40, 50, 75, 100) Hope this all makes sense.
__________________
TRex 700E Pro DFC HV (BD3SX) - Gaui X5 (6S/BD3SX), Blade 130X, RealFlight, Heli-X, Taranis+DSMX |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|