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Atom 6HV, 6HVU and 550 Ultimate Compass Atom 6HV, 6HVU and 550 Ultimate Model Helicopter Discussion |
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07-10-2014, 01:27 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Motor shaft damage from counter bearing?
Was going to test out a few different motors on my 6HVU. Pulled out the KDE 600XF I've been running and this is what I found. The counter bearing was starting to get a little gritty, but not seized up or anything. When I was running Vbar never had any vibe issues in the logs. The motors internal bearings were fine, no play and no wear on the shaft internally, just the end with the counter bearing.
Anyone else ever chew up a shaft with the counter bearing? I replaced it with a new bearing, but am still a little concerned about gouging up the shaft on my new Xnova 4030, so I threw the stock Compass 540kv in there. The Compass actually used a little less juice and ran cooler for the same headspeed. Will run that for awhile and check the shaft before trying the Xnova |
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07-10-2014, 01:36 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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I've had this happen on multiple helis. Sometimes its good to locktite the bearing to the shaft to prevent slipping. I think its the helical gear setup that causes it. As the motor gets loaded, the helical gear gives some vertical movement between the shaft and bearing and might cause it to momentarily slip.
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07-10-2014, 10:33 PM | #3 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Sounds good, got some Permatex green sleeve retainer that I've been meaning to try out. Will try it with the Compass motor.
Any thoughts about not running the counter bearing? Thought I saw someone post the other day that they don't use it. Will the motor bearings wear out too fast without the counter bearing to share some of the load? |
07-11-2014, 07:27 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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Motor shaft damage from counter bearing?
I had the same thing happen, only mine looks worse. This was after about 60 flights. Stock production motor. I switched to the 600xf g3 and removed the counter bearing. The kde motor has quad bearings, so I don't anticipate a problem with this setup and it's been flying great.
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07-12-2014, 10:57 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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This is a common issue with a counter bearing if you don't use green loctite, including the original 6HV with straight-cut gears. Even using loctite, it's hard to notice if it fails and decides to break loose somewhere down the line. I've had this happen to a couple shafts throughout the years.
You can decide to use even more loctite but then come time to change bearings or motor you may find yourself swearing with a soldering iron in one hand, hammer in the other and wishing you had an arbor press. If I find myself swapping motors back and forth a lot I'm going to buy another counterbearing support that stays with the motor. I'll be curious to see how your KDE 600XF holds up without the counter bearing as I'm running the same motor and have considered doing the same.
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- Eric Compass Atom 6HV, KDE 600XF-530 motor, CC Ice2 HV 80, Torq Servos, BeastX MSH Protos 500, Scorpion/YGE, Brain GAUI X3 6S, Xnova 1860, HW 50A V3, MKS DS95, 8910A+, BeastX, Belted Tail. |
07-13-2014, 12:03 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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I have hundreds of flights on my 6hv without a counter bearing and my 700mx seems to be fine.
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07-14-2014, 06:58 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Kind of disappointed in the KDE 600XF actually. It's a good quality motor, but the stock Compass 540kv and Xnova 4030 both were more efficient and ran cooler.
Right now I have the Xnova installed without counter bearing. It only has 2+1 bearings versus 4+1 on the KDE but hopefully will be fine. Out of all three the Xnova is looking the best, very nice motor. |
07-14-2014, 09:00 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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I think I mentioned it before, but I had the same experience with the kde600xf. I really think it was designed around fitting in a trex 600 so the stator is not very large for how heavy it is. I got better power and efficiency out of a 700mx that weighs exactly the same and much cheaper.
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07-15-2014, 11:54 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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I know we've gone off topic but I unfortunately have to agree with both of you on the KDE 600XF
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- Eric Compass Atom 6HV, KDE 600XF-530 motor, CC Ice2 HV 80, Torq Servos, BeastX MSH Protos 500, Scorpion/YGE, Brain GAUI X3 6S, Xnova 1860, HW 50A V3, MKS DS95, 8910A+, BeastX, Belted Tail. |
07-17-2014, 04:46 AM | #10 (permalink) |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Motor shaft damage from counter bearing?
I was just looking at my motor shaft on my Scorpion HKII 4225-550LE, and noticed the same thing. The counter bearing feels ok, so I just reinstalled it for now.
Posted using Tapatalk Team HD Cell
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If there's better, I want it. HDCell 500, Scorpion HKIII 4025-890, Compass 6HVU, Scorpion HKII-4225LE, 9K4O |
07-17-2014, 07:13 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
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Motor shaft damage from counter bearing?
Quote:
Out of curiosity, were you all referring to the original 600xf or the new 600xf-g3?
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Protos Max 700, Logo 550SX, Goblin 570 MSH USA Flight Team, MSH Brain, Jeti Model, Cyclone |
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07-17-2014, 09:45 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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My experience is with the G3 version
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07-18-2014, 11:32 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Mine is the original, even tried KDE specific firmware for the my Castle Ice2 80HV.
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- Eric Compass Atom 6HV, KDE 600XF-530 motor, CC Ice2 HV 80, Torq Servos, BeastX MSH Protos 500, Scorpion/YGE, Brain GAUI X3 6S, Xnova 1860, HW 50A V3, MKS DS95, 8910A+, BeastX, Belted Tail. |
09-05-2014, 09:59 AM | #14 (permalink) |
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For what it's worth I have probably 75 flights now running without the counterbearing on an Xnova 4030. Popped the motor open yesterday and it's showing no signs of wear at all on the shaft or bearings. Pinion and main gears are also showing no wear.
I'm not sure how this would translate to you guys who really hammer on your helis. My flying is pretty mild but I'm starting to throw it around more. For now I'm going to keep running with no counterbearing. |
09-10-2014, 01:29 AM | #15 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Does anybody have a link for a good quality counter bearing? I have a Boca but once I pressed it into the holder it feels like the bearing has been pressed so tight it doesnt spin freely?
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09-10-2014, 08:15 AM | #16 (permalink) |
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Rcbearings usually has a good selection, I have used high end bearings in that spot but have since decided that a decent quality metal shield bearing holds up just fine.
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09-10-2014, 10:33 AM | #17 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Link?
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09-10-2014, 12:20 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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Location: Midland, Michigan
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I think the primary cause of the bearing journal wear is excessive clearance in the fit. I believe there's enough load for it to run with the shaft properly (not slipping), but at the insanely high speed that the motor runs, combined with the loads, we transmit a fair amount of high frequency, low amplitude vibration from gear mesh through this journal location. It will cause this wear damage we see. The shafting used isn't nearly as hard as the inner races of the bearings.
Shaft retention compound will help by preventing relative movement between the jorunal and bearing inner race ID. It's not permanent due to the conditions.
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09-10-2014, 05:32 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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Yes thanks Rob but this was my second bearing so I used the green locktite so I think it needs a stronger bearing.
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Your is my Bread and Butter. Compass Field Rep/KBDD Team pilot/Experiencrc.com |
09-10-2014, 07:42 PM | #20 (permalink) |
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Cory, are you cranking down on the two long through bolts securing the support plate?
When I assemble mine I just snug those two trusting thread lock will do it's job. Then install motor and evenly snug up the six bolts securing motor and support plates. Maybe just my imagination but I think this will keep everything squared up. Could be your plate is now worn or was bored off center and needs replaced. I have a crap load of flights and my bearing is still original and still good, shaft on my Pyro 650 looks good too. I'll see what the stock motor shaft looks like soon when the Pyro is going back in.
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