Trex 450 Pro build videos

[jhheli]

Originally Posted by Finless

I am enjoying my Vbar 450 Pro. Bob

What fbl head are you using and your setup in general? how far out on the cylic servos are you?

[Finless]

I used the Align head and I moved my balls one hole in on the servo arms from stock.

Bob

[e30ernest]

Originally Posted by Finless

I moved my balls...

Sorry I couldn't resist!

[kdean]

Side note to all those setting up throttle curves.

You cant just set some generic numbers that you find on a thread. Yes, its a good place to start but the motor rpm does not change with every increment of the throttle curve.

When setting up your motor and esc, with all blades off, listen to your motor as you go from 0% to 100% with your throttle. You will hear that the rpm only changes at certain points along the way. Take note of these points, then set your throttle curve to work with those points. It almost sounds like the motor is changing gears, like a car. You dont want to set your hover point right in the middle of a gear change, if you know what i mean.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by kdean

Side note to all those setting up throttle curves.

You cant just set some generic numbers that you find on a thread. Yes, its a good place to start but the motor rpm does not change with every increment of the throttle curve.

When setting up your motor and esc, with all blades off, listen to your motor as you go from 0% to 100% with your throttle. You will hear that the rpm only changes at certain points along the way. Take note of these points, then set your throttle curve to work with those points. It almost sounds like the motor is changing gears, like a car. You dont want to set your hover point right in the middle of a gear change, if you know what i mean.

Do you have governor enabled? That description sure sounds like you do. It should not do that in airplane or heli-soft start modes.

Bob

[kdean]

Originally Posted by Finless

Do you have governor enabled? That description sure sounds like you do. It should not do that in airplane or heli-soft start modes.

Bob

This is something I do when building a new heli. With the blades off, and everything else ready to maiden, i'll run a battery through the heli checking for binding, servo glitches, vibrations, etc. Also, to make sure nothing flies off, or comes loose. While doing this I noticed that the motor rpm is not linear - with govenor off, soft-start (always for heli), and with a linear throttle curve (usually idel up 2).

I think this is due to the set increments of the esc. I have a hobbywing platinum pro 40A that I was using with govenor, but dont need that much performance from my heli, yet. It really shortens my flight time, and i'm not doing any hardcore 3D, yet. But, I really noticied this "rpm shifting" while setting up an exceed volcano 40a with an alpha 400 motor in my second 450pro and one of my walkera V400D02s'. And in my HK500 with the turnigy plush 60a, and typhoon motor.

That said, i know the plush is the same as the volcanos, and I have not done this test with the hobbywing, because i was using the govenor anyway. It may be that this "rpm shifting" only happens with low end esc's. I need to try it with the hobbywing, govenor off, and see if the esc delivers a linear rpm curve.

[Finless]

I thought you were talking about the Align ESC that came with the Pro. It does not do this stepping. Cant speak for the hobbywing.

Bob

[Jasmine2501]

I wouldn't trust an ESC that did that. It should accelerate smoothly through the whole throttle range. Perhaps you are working with a reduced range somehow? I would hook up a servo to the throttle channel and make sure it moves smoothly (to eliminate receiver or radio problem), then try resetting the end-points of your ESC to make sure it's seeing the whole range.

[rightto360]

Originally Posted by kdean

When setting up your motor and esc, with the blades off, listen to your motor as you go from 0% to 100% with your throttle.

Do we think running the heli up to 100 percent with no load is a good practice?

[Finless]

Originally Posted by rightto360

Do we think running the heli up to 100 percent with no load is a good practice?

Nope! In fact this maybe causing what he is seeing with the ESC.

Bob

[rightto360]

Bob,

Do you know any way to flip the TR from the right side to the left. I am going to go to a scale body and want CCW rotation on the MR for accuracy. If I reverse the MR rotation and leave the TR on the right side my tail blades will be coming down with the rotor wash. Not to mention that most every helicopter I would want to emulate is CCW and TR on the
left.

I took the tail apart last night and found the only way to do it would be to flip the whole drive unit and boom mount the servo because that puts the pitch slide arm on the tail on top of the boom.

Kick the idea around and let me know if you can think of a better way.

[Finless]

For scale stuff don't worry about the rotation direction being up into the rotor wash. It really does not matter much anyway to flight. I state it in my build vids so you know which way it should go per the design and manual.

Bob

[kdean]

Originally Posted by rightto360

Do we think running the heli up to 100 percent with no load is a good practice?

I dont get it up to 100% and hold it there. The motor is normaly at max rpm with no load at 86 - 90% anyway. When doing this test I move the sticks around like i would if flying the heli. If you have a high end esc you might not have to worry about this. But take the time to try it, you may find your esc and motor are not performing the way that you think.

[Jasmine2501]

Originally Posted by kdean

I dont get it up to 100% and hold it there. The motor is normaly at max rpm with no load at 86 - 90% anyway. When doing this test I move the sticks around like i would if flying the heli. If you have a high end esc you might not have to worry about this. But take the time to try it, you may find your esc and motor are not performing the way that you think.

I fly 3D planks, and we need 'correct' throttle response for those, and I've never had an ESC do what yours is doing. I am not sure if I would notice it on a heli since I always fly in idle-up mode, but on my helis I use soft start and they all spool up smoothly. I wouldn't use the ESC you have. If I'm clear on what's happening with it, then it doesn't sound right.

Maybe you have a funky throttle curve? Check your servo monitor and make sure it's moving smoothly

[kdean]

Sometimes, there may be some frequencies that your motor is more comfortable spinning at. Or, there may be some rpms that cause a strange resonance in the frame or head/gear assembly. By doing the blade off test, you will find these points. Just try it.

I did this with my brand new HK500 with turnigy 500H motor and plush 60A esc. There are sweet spots and the rpm tops out at 70% throttle. I did not find any bad resonant frequencies or vibrations, and no binding with cyclic and rudder movement. Good stuff to know about your system before you get in the air.

Also, for those worried about load, the main gear and head along with your tail drive system is all the load you need for a quick test.

[kdean]

Originally Posted by Jasmine2501

I fly 3D planks, and we need 'correct' throttle response for those, and I've never had an ESC do what yours is doing. I am not sure if I would notice it on a heli since I always fly in idle-up mode, but on my helis I use soft start and they all spool up smoothly. I wouldn't use the ESC you have. If I'm clear on what's happening with it, then it doesn't sound right.

Maybe you have a funky throttle curve? Check your servo monitor and make sure it's moving smoothly

Most guys buying these kits are getting 450 pro clones and are on a budget. The need for a $70+ esc is not as important when your just getting into this hobby. The esc and motor were actualy recomended to me when buying my clone kit. Im trying to help the guys that might have these issues, and trying to find ways to avoid a crash due to set up error. No need for you 'pros' to get all defensive about your superior quality equipment.

[Jasmine2501]

Originally Posted by kdean

Most guys buying these kits are getting 450 pro clones and are on a budget. The need for a $70+ esc is not as important when your just getting into this hobby. The esc and motor were actualy recomended to me when buying my clone kit. Im trying to help the guys that might have these issues, and trying to find ways to avoid a crash due to set up error. No need for you 'pros' to get all defensive about your superior quality equipment.

I'm not saying you need a different brand or something, just get one that isn't broken.

I have Turnigy Plush, and I a few other "discount" speed controllers, and none of them do what yours is doing. However, there is a way to tell the radio to do what you're experiencing, which is why I said to check the servo monitor. Could be the ESC is fine, but you're sending it wonky instructions.

[dave creighton]

When you attach the motor pinion gear to the motor shaft do you file a little flat or use any red thread lock on the motor shaft? or do you just rely on the set screw to hold it?

Appreciate the help

Dave

[Finless]

The set screw has what are called "dog ears" on the end of it. e.g. it has a cup shape on the end of it. When you tighten the set screw this cup cuts a ring in the motor shaft to seat the set screw so it wont slip. However this cup only really cuts the ring once and then the cup is now dull and may not cut a new ring. So you should not try to reuse a set screw like this unless you can get it back in the ring it originally cut. So most use a new set screw.

To solve this yes you can put a flat spot in the motor shaft however in this application you should file the cup off the set screw so the set screw is flat. Otherwise the set screw can walk back and forth wearing down the cup and causing the set screw to loosen.

Bob

[Ozz58]

Originally Posted by Finless

To solve this yes you can put a flat spot in the motor shaft however in this application you should file the cup off the set screw so the set screw is flat. Otherwise the set screw can walk back and forth wearing down the cup and causing the set screw to loosen.

Bob

If you do file a flat spot on the shaft, remember to put the motor in a plastic back and poke the shaft through the bag. This will keep the metal from the file from getting into the motor.

Good Luck,

Craig