Which electonic parts if not going with the combo kit?

[FredRX]

Hi everybody,
I'm seriously considering starting a Logo 800 XXtreme build
However - at first sight - I am not willing to go with the Mikado electronic combo.

Here what could be part of my future heli:

• ESC: not a large choice here, as soon as we speak about 14S... YGE 160 should be all right
• Motor: The KDE 700XF-395 seems to be huge in terms of power, plus prime build quality; but I've not seen a lot of reviews of it...
  And is it worth having so much power (it peaks at +12000 W !), even on a 800 size heli ?
• Gyro: I'm a fan of Spartan products. What about the Vortex VX-1 ?

What do you think about these electronic parts ?
Any comment / advice ?

[nebuchadnezza]

Hey,

Well i recommend the Combo actually

Yge 160 which comes with the Combo is Fine (vbar gov is Great, but be Award the XX Version is only able to Run on vbar due to no Internal gov - get the regular One if no vbar)

I Love my vbars. Especially in the XX with silverline its a breeze in terms of Tuning And optimization for a 800.

Check www.twheli.de with google translator for a quick Look at the kontronik 800 Motor. Little weak for the 800

The scorpion in the Combo is Not bogging at all And comes Down warm but cool enough - 10 min Rest And ready to go again or just use a pc Fan like i Do And its 2mins ready.
With the vbar gov And active freewheel And the scorpion i am able to get stable headspeeds on 1500-1800 rpm with no bogs with my tictoc Stick stiring ;-)

If its Out of Personal Feeling go with Anything - but keep in mind the Combo Works Awsome And Most People are only Changing stuff on it to give it its own Touch i Think ;-)

Motor "Must" habe a 8mm Output, servos is just a question of Money i guess.
Savox should work Fine, outrage, futaba whatever ;-)

Check Www.vstabi.info on some wring/bec options - 2s with 3 servo Leads And some caps to Filter are recommend right now.

Have fun,
Maybe Someone Else will shed some light on some other options!

[FredRX]

OK I see. So If I understand well, the Mikado combo is really optimized for this heli. We can change some parts obviously, but it's more for a matter of pure customization.

Then I may look closer at the Mikado combo kit. Many thanks for you reply

[Hawk404]

Originally Posted by FredRX

Hi everybody,
I'm seriously considering starting a Logo 800 XXtreme build
However - at first sight - I am not willing to go with the Mikado electronic combo.

Here what could be part of my future heli:

• ESC: not a large choice here, as soon as we speak about 14S... YGE 160 should be all right
• Motor: The KDE 700XF-395 seems to be huge in terms of power, plus prime build quality; but I've not seen a lot of reviews of it...
  And is it worth having so much power (it peaks at +12000 W !), even on a 800 size heli ?
• Gyro: I'm a fan of Spartan products. What about the Vortex VX-1 ?

What do you think about these electronic parts ?
Any comment / advice ?

I started with a bare bones kit and the KDE 700XF-395. The issue was (things may have changed) that the standard Scorpion and the Pyro 800 I wound up with are available long shaft and the KDE wasn't. The 8mm wasn't a problem - KDE will provide pre-installed if you ask but it was just an 8mm "short" shaft.

Whoever runs the KDE forum is a great guy and let me return the product with no penalty. I've heard that not using the shaft end bearing on the 800 is OK but I'm new enough it was too big a departure from the documented configuration for comfort.




The above is as close as the end of the shaft is going to get to the bearing block without major surgery to the motor mount. When I was asking around it seemed that simply not using the bearing was more common than modifying the mount. Since I "chickened out" and went with the Pyro I don't know if the pinion would be hanging at the very end of output shaft or if the "flat" would have to be extended.

The KDE is listed as a direct replacement for the factory Scorpion so obviously some folks are comfortable with an unsupported output shaft. I am curious as to what you think of the application so if you run with it please report back.

In my specific case going with the barebones kit cost me about 500.00 extra.

Watch out for the fine print on the YGE - some few are sold with the following description:

This is an Mikado OEM YGE, it does not have all functions that a normal YGE has, it's locked to use with Mikado VBar Governor.

Since you're looking for flexibility getting that one could be a nasty surprise.

[Nelvick]

The Mikado combo works excellent. Just look this video from my logo all stock.
[ame]http://youtu.be/1Mt5p1_C6e4[/ame]

[Hawk404]

Originally Posted by Nelvick

The Mikado combo works excellent. Just look this video from my logo all stock.

Very nice.

But you may be confusing software with hardware, or as my granddad used to say "it's the injun, not the arrow".

The video illustrates that the stock combo is serviceable but, until and unless we see YOU fly with an alternative, say, Kontronik and HC we have learned nothing. You might be even more impressive with an alternative setup. Or not. It's simply not known.

For what little it might be worth if I had it do over again I would still go barebones. But there would be two significant differences.

First, I would not annoy KDE by trying to shoehorn their product into the mix.
Second, I would abandon, preemptively, any notion that barebones would be less expensive.

I've grown rather fond of Kontronik and the fact that Mikado put a proprietary bed of nail under some of the components doesn't fill me with warm and fuzzy. Nothing wrong with it and nobody said they should address my warm or fuzzy but OEM specific ESCs don't strike me as the best of all possible worlds.

YMMV, yadda.

Regardless of how impressively it might be flown with the combo components (and it's impressive indeed) we don't know if it would be any more or less impressive with alternatives. I'm betting "more" but it's unclear how such a wager might ever be settled.

[rcmarty]

I bought the combo when it came out ( before the bare bones was available ) It's all matched to work togeather well.

There was some reasoning behind the later release of the bare bones kits.

When first released you had to buy the combo kit. There wasn't any suitable 800 power systems out at the time. So many would put a 700 power system in and wouldn't be impressed with the performance. Makes sense of course but the internet can made a improperly powered machine be seen as a poor product at a blinding speed.

Of course once the 800 power systems became available the bare kit was released.

Smart marketing if you ask me , also protects there product.

True the YGE is locked to the vbar. On the other hand it works well. Unless your putting it into a flybarred heli (unlikely these days) keep it mated to a vbar (of any variety ) and your good to go.
Sounds like a sales pitch but i'm a huge kontronics lover, built in bec etc . Love it. But lets face it the kosmic is expensive ! Love is one thing but that baby's pricey. ( oh i considered it )

If you add up the cost of the parts and pieces there's a small price break in there , not much though.

So basicly of you want a ready to go proven setup , get the combo.
If your the tinkering/hotrod type with some extra cash available then the bare bones is your avenue ( kosmic , piro , 16s , you name it )

Stock combo kit goes real good , even puts up with my collective bashing.

Great heli , i love mine. I bumped the cyclic to 100 and tail up 10 and it flies much quicker. Now if german customs would hand over my ESC for an update i could continue the collective bashing (another catch to the german esc's)


Martin

[FredRX]

Originally Posted by rcmarty

I bumped the cyclic to 100 and tail up 10 and it flies much quicker.

What do you mean? What did you tune exactly?

-----
BTW, I've ended up with the combo. Indeed: everything works fine together

[rcmarty]

Originally Posted by FredRX

What do you mean? What did you tune exactly?

-----
BTW, I've ended up with the combo. Indeed: everything works fine together

I increased the sliders on the first page (not setup)

Increased the main rotor agility up to 100 from 94 for a faster cyclic.

I found that when pulling out of a vertical dive the heli seemed to lag a bit on the pull out. I'd go 2-3 ft (depending on speed) lower than i wanted. With the slider up to 100 it pulls out quickly.

Might be that i like a fast reacting heli or i'm not one to poke the cyclic big enough. Or both

Same deal on the tail +10 made a faster piro rate, which i prefer.

Martin

[Hawk404]

Originally Posted by FredRX

What do you mean? What did you tune exactly?

-----
BTW, I've ended up with the combo. Indeed: everything works fine together

No sense of adventure. I'm disappointed.

I was really wanting to know from someone first hand how the KDE motor worked missing the output shaft bearing. I've heard it's just fine but some first hand observation would have been appreciated.

Oh well, ...sigh... you did well with the package.

I'm rather of a slow moving sort and the Kontronik / HC3SX alternative seems to be coming together rather well - jury remains out but soon...