Trekker 800 NOT Delrin gears.

[hidaven]

Talked to Tim at Align. The main gear is CNC cut but not delrin.......Not the best place to be saving money Align.......

[Feeback]

Did they say what material they were using?
Delrin is not always the best choice. The change to slant gears may be reason enough to change to another resin for example...per recomendations from the suppliers of engineered resins.

[JustinS]

Coming Soon in 110 & 13 - 112 & 12

[hidaven]

I think the trekker 800 uses the 110 main and 13t pinion correct?

[oldie1]

Yes

[HeliGriff]

I wanted to get this topic back onto the thread where it started. Please excuse my ignorance, as I'm still new at this. Are you guys having the stock gears fail under non-crash conditions?

For me, stripped gears have always been a result of the blades coming in contact with something other than pure AIR. I figure that the stripped gear has likely just saved me from having a lot of other damaged parts because it took the hit.

My concern is that if we replace every stock gear with Delrin bulletproof gears, are we setting ourselves up for other damage that may be more costly?

If the only gear failure is crash related, I can't really see the importance. However, if gears are failing under normal conditions (non-crash), than I agree that replacing them is not an optional thing and must be done.

Chime in, please.

[nu66ie]

I have not had the main gear fail but did notice the white dust after almost every flight. Eventually I began to notice increased mesh between the pinion and main gear after about 40 flights. This tells me the gear was wearing at a high rate and would have eventually failed.

I installed the new main gear with a new pinion, and after about 20 flights, the mesh has not changed. But I am starting to see a very light build up of material every 5 or 6 flights at the bottom of the grooves on the main gear. It looks clear like some sort of finish that was put on the gear. I use a brush to keep the grooves clean. I'll take a picture of it next time and post it.

I also noticed increased mesh between the autorotation gear and the TT drive gear. After putting the new black gears on, that mesh has tightened a little and once the new autorotation gear is installed, it should be nice and sung.

[hidaven]

Nu66ie will give better insight but from my perspective this half a$$ed attempt by align to push out a stretched 700 hasn't worked so well. These "upgraded" black gears are meant to correct an issue in the 700 dfc! Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the 800 with much more torque and stress on the same equipment is going to take a toll probally even quicker than on the 700.

As Don points out, this is NOT bling for the 800. These are parts that have failed or have the potential for failing. The idiots at align stretched a flawed 700 into an 800 and figured what the hell......I agree with don 100% that the heli flies great and is worth the modifications this far. If you spend an additional 200.00 the heli is still very cost effective for a bird that flies well on 12s. I'd replace the white gears and the other things mentioned as its cheap insurance. The motor, servos, esc, etc are all fine. Grips, blades etc. all good. Only other area is the dampners. It's possible that either align or KDE comes out with a beefier head and grips at some point. So your costs can further increase by 100.00 or so. My guess is that we will see a radically improved 3d dedicated 800 from align which will prompt me to burn their facility to the ground..... : )

[Feeback]

I haven't seen anyone ever complain about stripping a gear from a crash. The issue is in flight stripping which does happen. The key, IMO, is to have a stable gov and not too much gain.
The latest gears for the 700 seem pretty good on a 700 but I haven't had much experience with the 800.

[HeliGriff]

Originally Posted by nu66ie

I have not had the main gear fail but did notice the white dust after almost every flight. Eventually I began to notice increased mesh between the pinion and main gear after about 40 flights. This tells me the gear was wearing at a high rate and would have eventually failed.

I installed the new main gear with a new pinion, and after about 20 flights, the mesh has not changed. But I am starting to see a very light build up of material every 5 or 6 flights at the bottom of the grooves on the main gear. It looks clear like some sort of finish that was put on the gear. I use a brush to keep the grooves clean. I'll take a picture of it next time and post it.

I also noticed increased mesh between the autorotation gear and the TT drive gear. After putting the new black gears on, that mesh has tightened a little and once the new autorotation gear is installed, it should be nice and sung.

Originally Posted by hidaven

Nu66ie will give better insight but from my perspective this half a$$ed attempt by align to push out a stretched 700 hasn't worked so well. These "upgraded" black gears are meant to correct an issue in the 700 dfc! Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the 800 with much more torque and stress on the same equipment is going to take a toll probally even quicker than on the 700.

As Don points out, this is NOT bling for the 800. These are parts that have failed or have the potential for failing. The idiots at align stretched a flawed 700 into an 800 and figured what the hell......I agree with don 100% that the heli flies great and is worth the modifications this far. If you spend an additional 200.00 the heli is still very cost effective for a bird that flies well on 12s. I'd replace the white gears and the other things mentioned as its cheap insurance. The motor, servos, esc, etc are all fine. Grips, blades etc. all good. Only other area is the dampners. It's possible that either align or KDE comes out with a beefier head and grips at some point. So your costs can further increase by 100.00 or so. My guess is that we will see a radically improved 3d dedicated 800 from align which will prompt me to burn their facility to the ground..... : )

I don't have any problem buying upgrades if they are needed. So far, my list of recommended Trekker upgrades (all of Nu66ie's) will cost over $400. Again, that's okay if needed. I don't mind spending the money to stay airborne. It sure beats getting out the shovel to retrieve your heli from the smoking hole in the ground.

One note, on my 600EFL, I had white dust in the very beginning and the gap widened almost immeasurably. What I noticed is that after a couple of weeks, it stopped doing that! I experienced the same thing with my 450. I've never had mesh issues or failure with the gears. I'm wondering if the teeth are simply "breaking in". Because the tolerances are not that precise, compared to a crankshaft in a race car, perhaps the white gears sort of 'self-true' by wearing down a little?

Anyway, since there are known 'non-crash' issues with the gears and tail shaft, I'll jump on that upgrade-wagon too, sometime during the build. Thanks for the input, guys!

[HeliGriff]

My two cents..

We need to give Align a little bit of a break here. I look at the modern day automobile selling at an average of $30,000. Think about it. It still has four tires, a steering wheel, some seats, and a motor. Other than "bling" and creature comforts, the dang thing hasn't changed much since Henry Ford's 1927 Model T.

Now, for under $3,000, we can buy a miniaturized 6ft helicopter that flies at our command and is electronically stabilized. It wasn't long ago that Wilbur and Orville Wright were still designing the airplane.

I think these RC machines are marvels, as is the airplane, and Align makes some of the best. If they 'whoops' every now & then and have to redesign a part, they have certainly made up for it in other ways.

Just my opinion.

[hidaven]

Yes, I agree that in the past those white gears seem to settle down and harden. Why don't you just get the main gear and just keep an eye on it. I'd definitely get the main gear as its in direct contact with the pinion. Just keep an eye on increased slop and or wear and you can gauge for yourself. All the black gears are roughly 60.00 including the main.

Also, from mine and other friends experience. I ALWAYS spray down my gears with dry silicone every 5 flights. Much less friction, quieter, and lowers the temps on the gears and pinion! Been doing it for years without wear or a failure yet. Use dry lube as it won't stay tacky attracting dust and crap.......

[hidaven]

Well this is a whoops for sure. I see your point but my and nu66ies point is that they are replacing all these gears for FREE if you own a dfc 700! Why in gods name would you put the same garbage in a bigger and potentially more deadly heli? Now keep in mind that I also added braces, solid joined bearing blocks, hardened steel screws etc on my 550 but that was just for over and above protection. My issues are with a major company putting out their biggest and most dangerous bird yet and CHOOSING to put known weak parts in it?!?!?!

They can't just claim this trekker was purely for aerial photography otherwise why the hell put 3d on the box and canopy? And forget the gears for a second, nu66ie has a handful of flights and he's on his fourth set of dampners and third feathering shaft sleeve!

Last point, crank this monster up to 2000 rpm and fly it close to you and tell me you wouldn't want the best, possibly over kill parts in it. At 6000 watts and 8 hp its 3 times more powerful and deadly than your gas mower.......

[HeliGriff]

Originally Posted by hidaven

Well this is a whoops for sure. I see your point but my and nu66ies point is that they are replacing all these gears for FREE if you own a dfc 700! Why in gods name would you put the same garbage in a bigger and potentially more deadly heli? Now keep in mind that I also added braces, solid joined bearing blocks, hardened steel screws etc on my 550 but that was just for over and above protection. My issues are with a major company putting out their biggest and most dangerous bird yet and CHOOSING to put known weak parts in it?!?!?!

They can't just claim this trekker was purely for aerial photography otherwise why the hell put 3d on the box and canopy? And forget the gears for a second, nu66ie has a handful of flights and he's on his fourth set of dampners and third feathering shaft sleeve!

Last point, crank this monster up to 2000 rpm and fly it close to you and tell me you wouldn't want the best, possibly over kill parts in it. At 6000 watts and 8 hp its 3 times more powerful and deadly than your gas mower.......

I understand your point. Replacing the gears on 700's at no charge is almost self-admission that there is a problem. It took Align ten seconds to offer them as spare parts for the 800. Why they are not free, like the 700, we'll never know.

I like the idea of the dry silicone. Is this a hardware store item? I'm interested in getting some right away!

[hidaven]

Most hardware stores have it. Look for dry silicone lube spray. Road bikers use it all the time. Best thing since sliced bread. My pinion is over 20 degrees cooler as measured by infared. Much quieter and wayyyyyyyyyy less friction on the gears. Over a hundred flights on the trex 550 and the gears never shed a bit. Still look as good as the day I first installed them. Not a mm of slop developed. The 800 will more than benefit from this.......spray all gears main, auto, TT, umbrella etc.

Originally Posted by HeliGriff

I understand your point. Replacing the gears on 700's at no charge is almost self-admission that there is a problem. It took Align ten seconds to offer them as spare parts for the 800. Why they are not free, like the 700, we'll never know.

I like the idea of the dry silicone. Is this a hardware store item? I'm interested in getting some right away!

[HeliGriff]

Originally Posted by hidaven

Most hardware stores have it. Look for dry silicone lube spray. Road bikers use it all the time. Best thing since sliced bread. My pinion is over 20 degrees cooler as measured by infared. Much quieter and wayyyyyyyyyy less friction on the gears. Over a hundred flights on the trex 550 and the gears never shed a bit. Still look as good as the day I first installed them. Not a mm of slop developed. The 800 will more than benefit from this.......spray all gears main, auto, TT, umbrella etc.

Thank you! Just added dry silicone lube spray to my "must have" list.

[nu66ie]

Wow, a lot of good info and varying opinions.

For Align for replacing the 700e DFC gears for no charge and not the 800e DFC. Being the 800e seems to be much harder on the drive train, wouldn't that make it just as important, especially for safety sake? Self admission of a problem? Looks that way...

Is Align doing this or one of it's responsible retailers? (Align T-Rex Store)

I am aware of the break-in period for the main gears, but when the mesh starts to change, that's when I red flags go up signaling something isn't right. I have use the dry lubes in the past with varied results. My 700 showed dust for the first dozen or so flights, then, very very little on occasion.

Originally Posted by HeliGriff

and Align makes some of the best. If they 'whoops' every now & then and have to redesign a part, they have certainly made up for it in other ways. It took Align ten seconds to offer them as spare parts for the 800.

I couldn't agree more. But it seems like Dave said, when you screaming through a 3D routine on the deck, wouldn't you want to have parts that are as tough and reliable as possible? The last thing I want creeping into my mind is " I hope this thing holds together". After the two forced autos, and a little paranoid, I was leaning on the TH so hard that I hit it a time or two by accident. (and no the forced autos were not a result of hitting TH by accident)

I think it was a little more than 10 seconds, maybe 30 seconds, </end sarcasm> Maybe Align thought we wouldn't notice... I think it's more about safety than the $ spent on upgrading. Their timing wasn't too good this time...

[Curt S]

Promptly burn it to the ground. Haha.

Last point, crank this monster up to 2000 rpm and fly it close to you and tell me you wouldn't want the best, possibly over kill parts in it. At 6000 watts and 8 hp its 3 times more powerful and deadly than your gas mower.

Great way to put it into perspective. But a mower cant fly. Oh wait.

Sorry i had too.

[hidaven]

Curt how's your build and experiences with the trekker?

[jschenck]

I understand your point. Replacing the gears on 700's at no charge is almost self-admission that there is a problem. It took Align ten seconds to offer them as spare parts for the 800. Why they are not free, like the 700, we'll never know.

I called Assurance yesterday and Tim said they will not replace the gears on my trekker. I'm disappointed by that, ordered a set of black gears anyway. I want to make sure I have the best gears to start off with.