BLHeli-Setup for BLHeli - Q&A / Discussion

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by donaldsneffe

Whats with an Inrunner?
There is no answer in Wiki, but there is also written, there is no magnet inside the IR motor; I have disassembled a small inrunner recently (Turnigy 1015), and there is a very strong magnet inside on the axis...

How many poles does an outrunner with 6 magnets have? 6 or 12?
From Wikipedia:
The number of permanent magnets in the rotor does not match the number of stator poles
So "12" is the correct answer, is it?


Thanks,

Walter

# of poles refers to how many times a particular motor winding sees magnetic field changes pole (N -> S or S -> N). For most if not all outrunners, # of magnets used equals # of poles. Some Inrunners are 2 poles while others are 4.

[donaldsneffe]

Thanks to Vancouver!

Still not sure how to get the pole number in an IR


Walter

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by mescalinedream

How about predefined settings for certain motors? What I mean is if you have a hp05 motor then you should be able to choose that motor from a drop down list. Also there could be another section that will say economy,mild,wild or something like that. So you can change the performance depending on skill level and or battery life. If you want to fly it indoors then choose economy or you could have dual rates setup in your transmitter. I dont know, I am just throwing out ideas. I am also looking at it from a noob perspective. I am sure that half the people that use blheli have no idea what settings to choose and what not to. There may be a ton of people that are hindering performance because of wrong settings.
I dont think it would be hard to add predefined settings by motor preference. I would love to be able to choose "Black Dragon" or "hp06v2" in a motor list and "Mini cp" or "Mcpx" in the helicopter list. Then an automatic pop-up will occur asking how many teeth is on the pinion you are using. Another pop up will occur if using the Mini cp asking which maingear you are using, either a mini cp or genius. There may be other pop-ups too, but I cannot think of anymore. I want a simple interface that helps the user. I also want a video showing how to program blheli from a transmitter!!! I looked at the pdf and I cannot understand it.

Well I hope you take my ideas into consideration.

Problem is that most of these parameters are not to be tailored to the motor but tailored to the drivetrain. A 2S hp08s in an mCPX may need totally different parameter values if the same motor is put in a 130X or even the same mCPx just with 130X blades. It's not practical to have a preset set of parameters for a particular motor. It'll have to be for a particular motor in a particular bird with particular setup. There will be way too many combinations to be included. It's probably better just have a thread in here for people posting their parameters together with their particular motor/setup.

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by donaldsneffe

Thanks to Vancouver!

Still not sure how to get the pole number in an IR


Walter

I could be wrong on this and it may or may not work but try spinning the motor by hand. If you feel 2 cogs per rotation it's a 2-pole. If you feel 4 cogs per rotation it's 4-pole.

Other than that the most direct way to find out is try it with BLHeli ESC. Assuming it's 4-pole 1st and set your throttle value accordingly. If resulting headspeed is much lower than expected it's most likely a 2-pole.

[Diogenes]

Today, I put blheli 8.0 on my msrx tail (using tail settings) and I have a question. When I land and drop throttle to zero, the tail now takes a few seconds to stop spinning. What parameter do I need to change to get the tail to spin down quicker?

[sskaug]

Originally Posted by koi-fish

Today, I put blheli 8.0 on my msrx tail (using tail settings) and I have a question. When I land and drop throttle to zero, the tail now takes a few seconds to stop spinning. What parameter do I need to change to get the tail to spin down quicker?

The tail does this on purpose. Since starting a brushless motor takes some time, you do not want starts and stops in the air. Therefore a low speed idling is maintained for some time in order to avoid stop. You can adjust this idling speed with the "tail idle speed" parameter. And for the lower speed settings it may not run any more

[4712]

Sorry, this thread was not meant to be a new thread about BLHeli in the whole and the parameter functionality.

I know, it is sometimes not easy to separate between the internal functionality of the Firmware and the functionality of the configuration tool. It is a good idea to integrate some helpful hints for the parameters into BLHeli-Setup... But please keep in mind.

May be, we need another thread for the discussions of the parameters.

[donaldsneffe]

I probably have read this thead somewhen (long before I started to flash ESCs myself); but I had forgotten about it.
Got a link on it (in a German forum).
I will link it here again, DoubleCHs writeup is awsome and can halp nobs like me a lot to understand the stuff.

Check it out - if you did not do so far:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=412147

Walter

[4712]

New revision:

Changes in 9.0.0.2:
Bug-fix: Eep_Pgm_Gov_Setup_Target not re-read from Ini-file
Bug-fix: Gov_Gain Default-Indicators got mixed up in certain conditions.
Improved "Motor-Gear Setup" handling.

Please test...

BTW:

Motorsetups are stored in "MotorGovSetup.txt"

[mCP-X]
LipoCells=1
KV=13600
Pole=6
Teeth=8
MainGearTeeth=64

Every time You click "Write Setup" the setup is stored under the shown name (here: "mCP-X"). There is also a link between the BESC Name and the MotorSetup-Name stored in the file :"EscMotorSetup.cfg"

[My Test BESC]
MotorSetup=mCP-X

Both files can be deleted to delete or edited.

The MotorSetups can be reloaded by picking an entry in the combo-box, or will be reloaded when reading the parameters out of the BESC.

Well, complicated to explain. It is easier to try out and play with it.

Any comments or improvement ideas are appreciated very much.

[Heli+yeah]

Originally Posted by 4712

Do You want or not want pictures?

Yes. I’m sorry for not getting to my point.
I was thinking of a GUI possibly like the Tarot ZYX programming software, but of course fitting to BLheli.
This is a modified version of the Tarot ZYX software by this author.
http://fbl.net.nz/screenshots

[4712]

Thanks for Input! Great Software , it has more the style of a wizard...
This could indeed be very helpful for new users.

But, what I realy like at the current outfit of BLHeli-Setup is the fact, that all settings can be found on one single page.
So no one has to search long time to reach the right parameter.
The negative is, that one has to get used to dense arrangement of controls.

One point, what I always kept in mind, is the raw value stored in the EEprom section of the BESC. (green number on black background). It should help to not forget, what value to select with TX programming, to get the same result.
But may be it is time to change this.

I think, the good old context sensitive help (with or without pictogram)could provide helpful hints about every parameter.

[Heli+yeah]

I ‘m glad you like the example of a GUI.
Everyone who has posted here with suggestions/opinions is showing a compliment of your work to date.!

[theKaRmA]

Originally Posted by 4712

New revision:

Changes in 9.0.0.2:
Bug-fix: Eep_Pgm_Gov_Setup_Target not re-read from Ini-file
Bug-fix: Gov_Gain Default-Indicators got mixed up in certain conditions.
Improved "Motor-Gear Setup" handling.

Please test...

BTW:

Motorsetups are stored in "MotorGovSetup.txt"

[mCP-X]
LipoCells=1
KV=13600
Pole=6
Teeth=8
MainGearTeeth=64

Every time You click "Write Setup" the setup is stored under the shown name (here: "mCP-X"). There is also a link between the BESC Name and the MotorSetup-Name stored in the file :"EscMotorSetup.cfg"

[My Test BESC]
MotorSetup=mCP-X

Both files can be deleted to delete or edited.

The MotorSetups can be reloaded by picking an entry in the combo-box, or will be reloaded when reading the parameters out of the BESC.

Well, complicated to explain. It is easier to try out and play with it.

Any comments or improvement ideas are appreciated very much.

Looks awesome! Good work. I'll test tomorrow

Sent from codefireX

[4712]

Again a small update with some fixes/improvements:

Changes in 9.0.0.3:
Fixed: Any click on any "Default button" sets also "Startup Method" to default.
Fixed: Exception occur when delete all text from Motor-Setup-Name combobox.
Increased the window size a bit, so the scrollbars not always show up when using "non classic Windows style".

And minor changes to the Motor-Setup handling as well...

[donaldsneffe]

Originally Posted by 4712

Again a small update with some fixes/improvements:

Changes in 9.0.0.3:

Increased the window size a bit, so the scrollbars not always show up when using "non classic Windows style".

This was new in the last version - had already "big problems" with this...


Cool, thanks,

Walter

[4712]

Nice to read, Walter; I noticed this by chance yesterday, because I always use the "old style" Windows. So simply give a short note, even if it is not a "big" problem

[donaldsneffe]

Question (from German forum):

Change kv in BL Heli - settings - 3 "Motor-Gear setup".
RPM will not change in 18 "Governer setup target", while rpm change when changing the other variables in 3.
So i.e. playing around with settings for Nano CPx with HP03s 13500 kv and HP03s 16600 kv gives the same results.

Any explanations for this?


Thanks,

Walter

[4712]

Yes Walter, this is correct.
KV says: The Motor would run with 13500 rpm / Volt /unloaded without Governor Mode (= off).
So the maximum would be with 1s-> 13500*4.2= 56700rpm. This is of course theoretically, because You will not have 4.2V when flying and nobody knows how serious the manufacturer is with his kv rating, and the Motor is not unloaded. I take for calculation 3.8V /cell and multiply with 0.9 to simulate a more realistic flight situation.

So Lipo-cells + KV calculates in the app the maximum speed,that the motor can do.

Now BLHeli in Gov Mode regulates the rpm of the Motor in the form of magnetic field changes per time unit. This setpoint value will the BESC try to reach and hold.
In combination wth the motor pole count + pinion + gear the application calculates the setpoint as the head speed which will the BESC try to reach and hold.

The BESC does not now how fast the motor can turn. And here is the reason why the calculated value is sometimes shown inred color.
It is the case when the setpoint requires more speed than the motor can do.

Practically, You should stay with the Target value definitely below of the maximum possible speed (at least 1000 rpm I would think, but others will know better). Otherwise nothing can be regulated.

To use a 2-pol inrunner, You should set Gov Range to "low".

And here starts the work, I will have to do next: integrate the "Gov Range" into the calculator....

[donaldsneffe]

Hmm... ok.... have to think about this - because changing poles and pinions shows an effect.

So still not totally clear to me - pole and pinion numbers are similar values as kv - with a given voltage those values make a rpm somewhere...

So why do pole and pinion teeth number have an effect?

Thanks,

Walter

[4712]

Many poles = many magnetic field changes per revolution
So more poles = less mechanical rpm at a given count of magnetic field changes per revolution (eRPM?).