Align APS Review.

[sutty]

I don't know the answers to those questions, but I do know that if you do it high, and if you practice your switching routine, as soon as you flick the switch, if it does anything odd you can switch it back and recover. I could not dream of doing a deployment test of a system like this without a good deal of safety margin. Assuming you know it will switch off again, and you can fly okay, or have a competent test pilot to help, then after extensive ground tests, I would have thought height would be all the extra insurance you would need? Could be wrong if it does something funky with regard to being switched off again, but I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, would you?

Cheers

Sutty

[hijakdgtr]

For some reason this dosnt surprise me From align,I think the 3g and 3gx was a good lesson that I learnt from,in which iv seen two units fly fine and then have a complete lock out and write off two helis, I saw soo many people experience the same things on this forum,so any new align kits I buy I sell the 3gx straight away,Imo I think align designs something then quickly send it out on the market then hears all us poor hobbiest complaints and feed back and then they build a slightly better v2 version,theye treat us as the guinea pigs at our own cost hence why I stick to better proven electronics,their aps system is the 1st attempt align have made and won't be their last,personally I would never trial a system of this type until its been proven for at least a year or so I feel sick to see you pride and joy on the ground like that,I hope all goes well for you and hope that align comes to the party

[R_Lefebvre]

tilt test and lift test then why would turning blades make for such an extreme effect?

Very easy. Turning blades means vibration. Vibration confuses the IMU. Over it goes.

I'm very familiar with this problem as I'm struggling with it right now. It's the same problem that many of the "bail out" systems have. But if the Align is not smart enough to recognize the problem and kick out of Stabilize like the other systems do, then it's a big problem.

Helis are vibrational nightmares. I have an Ardupilot on a quad, I haven't even bothered to balance the props, and it flies awesome. Then I use the exact same system on two helis, a 450 and a 600, and it's really difficult to get them to fly right because the vibration messes up the IMU.

[jhamlinjr]

I think that's why they have the vibration test in place isn't it?

[cruzurr]

As a relative heli newbie and one who owns both the HeliCommand HC3sX and the Align APS I would like to share the following observations regarding both after reading this thread

First, I do not work for either Captron nor Align. In fact I don't work at all as I am a retired aerospace engineer with 25+ years experience flying fixed wing both R/C and full scale. R/C helis have always been on my bucket list so last December I picked up a copy of the Phoenix sim to give them a try. I now own 14 R/C heli's from Nano CP's to Trex 700's with a Goblin 700 in closing negotiations with my wife

Soapbox on...
My primary reason for purchase and what I expected from both the HC3SX and APS was/is pucker factor reduction thereby shortening the learning curve. Where I live there is no heli friendly flying field so I am self taught and lucky enough to live on a piece of property large enough to fly in my backyard.

I purchased the HC3sX at the 2012 Toledo show from Espirit Hobby and installed it with help from Espirit's Danny on my Align Trex 600 E with DX8 transmitter. To say that Danny has been a big help is an understatement. He took all my calls either immediately or called me back quickly if he couldn't. One could not ask for better technical assistance. Operationally I love the HC3sX. It has done exactly what I purchased it for: it helps remove the pucker factor from the equation to a large degree and I believe has saved me $100's in repair costs to date. I will probably buy at least one more.

I purchased the APS at the 2012 IRCHA show. To date installing it and using it on my Trex 500 EFL has been a failure. Mechanically, installation has been a piece of cake. Problem is I can't seem to figure out how to integrate it with the DX8 and Align tech support has been non-existent. In addition the Chinese instructional video is useless because 1). I don't speak Chinese and 2). those english sub-titles flashing across the screen are way too fast for me. I've received much more help from other heli-freaks (they know who they are) than I've been able to get anywhere else. To date however I have not yet flown the APS.

I guess the real problem may be is that the APS is bleeding edge technology and being an early adopter (sucker?) I am paying the price for APS V2 or at least updated documentation along with the others in the same boat. However... IF ANYONE HAS THE APS WORKING WITH A DX8 or similar transmitter please PM me. I seriously would love to report back to this forum what a wonderful product I think the APS is.
Soapbox off.

[HedgeHeli]

Originally Posted by cruzurr

I guess the real problem may be is that the APS is bleeding edge technology and being an early adopter (sucker?) I am paying the price for APS V2 or at least updated documentation along with the others in the same boat. However... IF ANYONE HAS THE APS WORKING WITH A DX8 or similar transmitter please PM me. I seriously would love to report back to this forum what a wonderful product I think the APS is.
Soapbox off.

Hey I don't own this radio but I did set APS up for a friend on a DX8 yesterday.

TX

Set the aux2 switch to gyro in the system menu.

Then set the 3 gyro rates 60% for 3GX, aux2 top position, 0% for APS aux2 middle position, and -30% for GPS aux2 bottom position.

Now switch to the monitor screen and make sure that when you flick the aux2 switch you see the gyro change between 60,0 and -30 (IIRC we had 59, 0, -31 showing)

Now on the heli we where working on we could switch on the rc independent of the flight batteries. Switch on the heli and check that the lights on both the 3GX unit and the APS unit display correctly for each mode - see manual.

Make sure you have calibrated your ESC end points then calibrate the throttle to your 3GX unit. Set up a governed head speed for flight mode 2 (idle up)

Re run DIR set up push forward for ELEV direction and Right for AIL direction if either of these two are wrong you will flip inverted when you enable APS on the air.

Now pre-flight against the instruction manual. If everything checks to your ready to fly. Double check throttle and pitch curves are as per manual.

Calibrate magnetic field, note the manual is wrong it says something like press APS setup button for three seconds and you get a flashing red light - it does not flash it's just solid. Turn heli 360 and the second red light comes on put heli vertical and turn it again 360 and your done should have 2 green lights. Switch off and on again.

Vibration test.
Press APS setup once, two green lights should be flashing. Fly heli in idle up from take off - do not spool up in normal mode, go straight to idle up governed head speed. Hover for 30 secs then land gently. You should see the 2 lights flashing green still if they are red refer to manual. You must now press the setup button again to accept the test, make sure you press it, its easy to hit it and because the foams are so squishy you don't actually press to accept. Turn heli off and on again.

You are now ready to test. The first test is APS hold mode. DO not do an auto take off as the first test. Get some height 60ft or so. Get in a calm hover and flick to APS you now have 2 secs to decide if its working or there is an issue - keep calm - if there is an issue flick out of APS and you are back in control, land and run through the pre-flight again.

The next test would be the RTH. Turn the heli off and on again. This clears the previous home position we just set at 60ft up in the air. With the heli now on the ground, switched on, and ready to fly, switch APS on and off again. You have now set the RTH point to be at the spot the heli is, but 3m or so in the air. Take off ( in idle up), now I recommend you fly left or right as opposed to straight out. The reason is, when the heli is flying automatically to the RTH spot it's less nerve racking having it fly in from left or right than it is having it fly straight at you. So fly out to the left or right flick into APS is the heli holding? If so now flick down into GPS there will be a 1-3 sec pause then the heli will ascend 10m it will then turn towards the RTH point and depending how far away it is it will fly fast or slow towards the RTH point. When it gets to the RTH it ill descend to about 3m above ground level and just hover.

If all that works then you are good to go and should try auto take offs and landings and waypoints.

Good luck.

[cruzurr]

Hey Hedgeheli, thanks so much for taking the time to help out. Finally I feel I've got a running chance getting the APS to work correctly. I owe you a pint or two of the adult beverage of your choice. Guinness?
Cruzurr

[cruzurr]

BTW did you guys notice that to perform the command check i.e. the A-3-A etc. checks you have to move from led to led on the APS unit using the transmitter rudder stick? No where in the APS written documentation have I found this. Got lucky and came across in instructional video.

[jhamlinjr]

Checked in on this thread to see if there has been any breakthroughs. Apparently not. Thank goodness I'm done with this nightmare. Align should be ashamed ASHAMED of themselves!!!! What a dangerous piece of crap this thing is. Not only is it dangerous but the USA Align office takes this as a joke. I've flown Align since day one. After ruining two cameraships they can take their APS and shove it along with anything else I own from them.... or would have owned in the future. Good luck to you guys!!!!

[atasbawah]

At first I read this post a few months ago, I was didn't believe that align aps is that bad.
I was thinking that there was an incorrect setup procedure so caused crash.

Today, my TREX550 together along with camera was crushed into a river after switching on the APS
from 3GX mode.

Last month I was spent a full week for upgrading my trex 550 into flybarless version using 3GX.
Heli was successflly transformed into a nice flybarless helicopter.

The next step was installing the align aps, spending a few days to make sure that everything
was according to its manual, including pitch and throtle curve. For the first time I was fly it
with Aps, and it was successfully installed. All feature was running flawlessly, including the
return to home, navigation beetween point a n b, all was very nice and really like it.

After some flight was done without any problem, then I add the camera for aerial
photography flight. Five of the first Aerial photography flight was done without any problem.
The last flight before crash, it suddently loss of position lock ability, the hely was drifted so far
in the air but I can control it and land it safely.

After double checking that everything was ok, Then the next flight was my nightmare come true.
Heli goes down banking left and right after switched to aps mode, when I tried to recover by switching back to 3gx but it run too fast and I couldnt do anything othe than seeing my heli crushed into a river.


Never bring your camera with align APS, it is really not reliable !

[Sambuka]

You mean I can't eat Chinese fried food and fly my Heli at the same time ? Damn it to hell, here I was thinking this hobby was finally progressing.

Sorry about your crash that sucks, Sk720 black and GPS Come out soon, although if you want a super reliable self level that just works flawlessly the Helicommand hc3sx is the best, doesn't have GPS but nothing touches it when it comes to perfect self level stability and the best bailout auto level and climb if you lose orientation. Although doesn't have position hold other units do though,

[HedgeHeli]

IMHO Align has incorrectly marketed APS at beginners. Its simply not ready for beginners indeed it should only be used by experienced users. Of course due to the nature of the product this is also further limited to experienced aerial photography users.

One of the issues is its not a bailout system the second issue is that Align themselves have not really closely defined its useage - say like DJI ACE One. Instead Align are fishing for uses and looking to the early adopters to help pave the way.

Its a good tool if you need to stick a heli in one position and leave it there while you do other things - say aim a camera (^^^^ or eat chinese food ^^^^). Its also good to know that if you dropped your TX, had interference or suffered a loss of signal the unit will fly back and hover 3m above the ground where it took off from. These features work flawlessly.

The last issuse in my mind is its price, its cheap. If you buy a DJI Ace one, at over £2.5k you are going to take it seriously and read the instructions cover to cover. But with align priced at £500 who cares, just whack it in and give it a go. Almost all the crashes I've read on the net are user/set up error.

To the guy that just lost the camera ship I really feel for you its not a cheap experience, I myself have about 5-6k wrapped up in one and the thought of when it goes in makes mne feel woozey. I would say my ship has also suffered severe flight issues having flown perfectly for 50-60 flights. All I had done was swapped lenses on my DSLR. Well turns out that the added weight of the new lens meant the Boom mounted batteries had to go back further and finally the GPS unit freaked out having the battery wires near it. Now the new lens was only 50g heavier than the last and the batteies only moved 10mm but that was the difference between OK and Screwed. I always test first flight at 20-30m up giving me plenty of time to switch APS off and regain control.

In short if you've read this far well done but if you are learning to fly dont buy this unit. If youve not got the £2.5k needed for an ACE one and want both position hold and Return to home then this unit may fit your circumstances.

[atasbawah]

Even for experience aerial photographer using this align aps will increase crash risk. We can't use it in the limited space, for example taking aerial filming in the forest with river, where the flight space is limited.
Switching APS to 3GX or vice versa is really horrible !
From APS to 3GX we must be careful, because mid-stick point is hover point while in the 3GX is a zero pitch that mean heli will going down. If you like to swtich on the APS from 3GX, we must pay attention also because heli usually drifted for a while before it get stable on position.
So if your flight space is limited as for aerial video .... Align APS is really unusable.
I have the other bigger heli with profi, switching mode from position hold, off, and horizontal mode without any problem, we also can adjust the gain directly from the TX.

So, if you just want to do Aerial photo/ filming in the wide open field (ideal location) all the time for the rest of your carrier, then should be ok if you use align APS. But if you plan to do aerial filming in the area with less ideal condition for flying, align aps is not recommended at all ! Better invest more money on a Helicommand profi or DJI Aces One (never try it). You can switch manual mode and GPS mode with confidence !



Cheers....

[STINGER494]

Have been flying my Trex 600 with APS fitted, problem is flys perfectly in 3GX but when APS the Heli rolls to the right. I have noted a suggestion that DIR needs resetting but do not understand why it flys ok in 3GX mode .

Can anyone help, please

Nige D

[Oneye]

Hey Guys can anyone shed some light on the failure I had at the weekend on my Trex 800E.

I have APS installed on my bird and she fly's very well with. Holding a hover is rock steady even in strong winds, return to home function works exactly as advertised.

Last weekend consisted of 3 flights, the 3rd one being the fateful one.

The first flight went well until the return to home function failed to arrest the descent at 3 meters. It looked like it was trying to but I have a feeling vortex ring may have been the problem. I took manual control and landed safely.

The second flight went well, APS was used to hold position while we took some aerial shots. RTH was not used to save time.

The third flight was another story. We decided to do one last flight to try some different camera settings out. I took off in 3GX mode and climbed to approximately 70-80 feet. I switched to Idle up 1 which is set to 74% flat line, rotor rpm was good.
When I switched to APS mode the rotor RPM dropped instantly, I tried selecting Idle up 3-3D throttle curve with no power increase observed.

Stupidly I had drifted over some trees and ended up coming down through them causing lots of damage to heli and camera.

Battery Voltage at take off was 45.5 volts, Tx and BEC voltage all good.

Does anyone know why APS would close the throttle to zero upon selection?

My ESC is set to soft cut at 3.3 volts per cell, so 45 volts should be more than enough?

Even if the ESC did cut the power it would be soft cut.

If anyone has any ideas I could really use some help.

Regards

Simon

[sergiobh]

The APS does not control acceleration. Did you not pressed the throttle hold by mistake? If you lose the radio signal the ESC cuts and will not go back alone.

[Geoff Fox]

Originally Posted by HedgeHeli

Hey I don't own this radio but I did set APS up for a friend on a DX8 yesterday.

TX

Set the aux2 switch to gyro in the system menu.

Then set the 3 gyro rates 60% for 3GX, aux2 top position, 0% for APS aux2 middle position, and -30% for GPS aux2 bottom position.

Now switch to the monitor screen and make sure that when you flick the aux2 switch you see the gyro change between 60,0 and -30 (IIRC we had 59, 0, -31 showing)

Now on the heli we where working on we could switch on the rc independent of the flight batteries. Switch on the heli and check that the lights on both the 3GX unit and the APS unit display correctly for each mode - see manual.

Make sure you have calibrated your ESC end points then calibrate the throttle to your 3GX unit. Set up a governed head speed for flight mode 2 (idle up)

Re run DIR set up push forward for ELEV direction and Right for AIL direction if either of these two are wrong you will flip inverted when you enable APS on the air.

Now pre-flight against the instruction manual. If everything checks to your ready to fly. Double check throttle and pitch curves are as per manual.

Calibrate magnetic field, note the manual is wrong it says something like press APS setup button for three seconds and you get a flashing red light - it does not flash it's just solid. Turn heli 360 and the second red light comes on put heli vertical and turn it again 360 and your done should have 2 green lights. Switch off and on again.

Vibration test.
Press APS setup once, two green lights should be flashing. Fly heli in idle up from take off - do not spool up in normal mode, go straight to idle up governed head speed. Hover for 30 secs then land gently. You should see the 2 lights flashing green still if they are red refer to manual. You must now press the setup button again to accept the test, make sure you press it, its easy to hit it and because the foams are so squishy you don't actually press to accept. Turn heli off and on again.

You are now ready to test. The first test is APS hold mode. DO not do an auto take off as the first test. Get some height 60ft or so. Get in a calm hover and flick to APS you now have 2 secs to decide if its working or there is an issue - keep calm - if there is an issue flick out of APS and you are back in control, land and run through the pre-flight again.

The next test would be the RTH. Turn the heli off and on again. This clears the previous home position we just set at 60ft up in the air. With the heli now on the ground, switched on, and ready to fly, switch APS on and off again. You have now set the RTH point to be at the spot the heli is, but 3m or so in the air. Take off ( in idle up), now I recommend you fly left or right as opposed to straight out. The reason is, when the heli is flying automatically to the RTH spot it's less nerve racking having it fly in from left or right than it is having it fly straight at you. So fly out to the left or right flick into APS is the heli holding? If so now flick down into GPS there will be a 1-3 sec pause then the heli will ascend 10m it will then turn towards the RTH point and depending how far away it is it will fly fast or slow towards the RTH point. When it gets to the RTH it ill descend to about 3m above ground level and just hover.

If all that works then you are good to go and should try auto take offs and landings and waypoints.

Good luck.

Dear HedgeHeli, I know this has been some time since you posted this, but when I change my gyro to Aux 2 my current setting is 37, you say put it at 60 will this not mess with my gyro settings.

[phaselag]

Hey Guys,

After a weekend of head scratching & countless attempts at setting up the Align APS for a friend of mine, I finally got it to work as it should. I thought it would be beneficial to share my process with others who may have issues getting the APS to function correctly.

Firstly, follow the elementary steps of the manual when setting up the 3gx and APS.
The Trex 500 is running a cc esc and I'm used to running governor mode with the set RPM function enabled and therefore flat throttle curves on my DX8. I was a little annoyed that align stressed the fact that you had to run linear throttle & pitch curves for the APS in normal mode. As it turns out you only need the linear throttle curve to initially calibrate the APS/3gx after which you can set to suit yourself. My throttle curve is a flat 30 in mode 1, and 70 in mode 2. Reflecting head speeds of approximately 1600 & 1800rpm respectively. Pitch curves are linear in both modes with -12 - +12 degrees of pitch.

I believe The biggest factor that contributed to the APS on the heli initially not working properly was vibrations. After many attempts at passing the vibration tests I eventually got it to pass (without changing anything). Once it had passed the vibe test (which was perhaps a lucky run) I ruled out the fact that vibrations would cause any issues.

After many attempts of changing things based on trial and error I was unable to get the APS working properly. It would do random things such as rapid un-commanded ascents and descents. I packed it in for the day and took the heli home. Upon inspecting my mates mounting of the APS unit it turned out that he had used basic thin double sided tape (not the included tape). I got hold of some thick foamy double sided tape and remounted the unit. I carried out the vibe test in both head speeds and it passed every time. I concluded that although I had it pass the vibe test earlier, there were still intermittent vibes from the heli causing havoc with the APS unit.

The following day I took the heli out, carried out my checks lifted in to the hover at around 50 feet, switched in to APS mode and it worked flawlessly. You are probably thinking, what an idiot of course its going to be sensitive to vibrations. Yes, however I thought that the sensitive vibe test was to ensure the best accuracy of the unit and lets face it all helicopters vibrate to some degree. I didn't expect it to not work at all.

Anyway in summary, when installing the APS make sure that your heli is running as smooth as possible and your APS is mounted with appropriate cushioning. Carry out the vibe test and make sure that it can pass consistently because any vibe that will cause it to fail the test, may result in the APS making erratic manoeuvres in-flight.

I should also mention that even though I'm ruining flat throttle curves, I am still able to utilise the semi-autonomous take off and landing feature.

The APS is a great little unit and I'm excited to see what is to come from align in the future.

[agfleischmann]

Hi 1Fastt2! I had exactly the same bad experience as you mentioned in the blog with my brand new T-rex 500e PRO DFC was absolutely perfect in the 3GX fly mode. Flown many times and performed beautifully with the 3GX until this crash. I got him into a nice stable hover about 10 meters. Changed the switch to activate the position hold function (APS), he took a direct path right at full pitch to the ground. For information I was with Idle active (70%) – as indicated in the manual. I tried to change for 3GX fly mode but it’s wasn’t enough, it was so fast, impossible to avoid the crash . Could you help me? Did you make works your APS GPS System?

[marcnchojna]

Which 3gx and APS versions?