FlyMentor Setup By Ivor Hill PLEASE READ FIRST!!

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by ahibrahim2009

Dose the FM Gyro Supports only a spacified kinds of servos?
i got FM installed oh HK450 pro with Align 410m cyclic servos and Align 520 rudder servo everything is going perfict and ok but.....
the rudder servo is vibrating and shacking all the time i dont know if it was something got to do with pulse or not and i couldnt find something like that in the settings of the FM ...
so can anyone help plz.....

They have been a few reports of some servo not being compatable but not many, it may be that the non adjustable pulse rate from FM is not compatable with some digital servo's, but I don't know.
Bear in mind that even expensive gyro's have to be matched with a compatable servo
The FM tail gyro can work as well as any cheap piezo gyro but most people do not like it and so use a seperate tail gyro.
It is normal for the servo to buzz a little when it is powererd up but not in use.
If it is giving you a problem then use a seperate gyro the $10 GA 250 is very small,works very well and the pulse rate is adjustable.
I now always fit the FM gyro under the heli, there is less vibration down there and if it's a 450 I fit 500 size skids. I use PU Gel and a velcro stap and fix the gyro right way up just forward of the rear skid. Many users are now doing this and are very happy with the results. Hope this helps.

[batman72]

I do agree Razor that you can do that, by looking at the position of the tail slider, but like you said, it is more of a habit. But one thing I like about the HK401B is its ability to reinitialize the HH mode position without unplugging the battery from the ESC.

I also noticed when flying, sometimes, it is pretty hard to turn the heli in one direction compared to the other. Upon examining the tail rotor, I realized that my blade holder was wobbly on both sides. This might be the reason why I can't turn in one direction properly. However, I am going to further experiment to see if it is the bearings on the tail rotor or tail slider wearing out.

Overall, I tried flying my heli again with FM. I noticed that I needed 100% gain (I binded the FM Balancing Gain to channel 7 of my new Turnigy 9x tx) in order for the heli to balance it out. However, it still required some slight cyclic inputs to ensure the heli doesn't hover out of control. Even in position mode, when there is a gust of wind, or if the air tempreture changes under the heli, you will notice the heli will bounce up and down and drift sideways. I stay in tropical climate where tempretures during the day can soar up to 34 degrees C. I was able to turn the heli round 360 degrees without problems except for the problem described above.

What I can say so far is that the FM works. I can actually let go of all cyclic sticks for a few seconds and the heli just hovers there. I've not tried any e-circuit runs yet, but I'm waiting for my 11T pinion to arrive so that I may enjoy longer flight times (I'm using 13T pinion now and without doing 3D it is a waste of battery power).

Oh, BTW I have just mounted the HK401B gyro behind the FM Gyro. Ivor recommended using plywood, but I used plastic from some old credit cards. I extended a platform on top of the tail boom holder and used double sided tape to stick the plastic flat, extending the top of the tail boom holder. Then with two layers of double sided tape, I position the HK401B gyro right behind the FM Gyro. It is night time now, hence, I will only try flying with this setup tomorrow to see if the tail and FM stability increases. I'll let you guys know.

[Razoredge]

The problem with turning the heli is what I'm talking about a few posts up.
When you dial in your tail servo in rate/normal mode by moving the servo up/down the tail boom and adjust your servo limits, the tailslider will not be at center, and as the limits only has adjustment for total throw you can only reach the full throw in one direction. I run at low headspeeds and need more pitch at the tail rotor. To get ful throw in HH mode i found that the easy way to do this was setting the servo arm and tailslider arm to 90 degrees. This makes the tailslider center. Then I adjust the neutral position in the heliball program to prevent tail drift in normal mode. This way I have full throw in HH-mode.

[Ivor Hill]

Batman. Flymentor is very sensitive to temperature. You can ease this problem by packing the FM gyro with a piece of foam cut from the box packing, so there is less air inside the gyro to get hot. You can also fit the gyro under the heli out of direct sunlight.
You should also let it stand for 5 minutes outside before flying.
If with the blue wire not connected and you are useing 100% gain set in helibal then something is very wrong, about 70% is normal. Test it with the blue wire disconnected so you are sure that the TX is not effecting it. Normaly with 100% gain the heli would be out of control and not flyable.
Check that all the other settings on the advance page are set to factory defaults as shown in the manual.

[gquiring]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

No If you have the hand held controller then you do not need the programme any thing you can do with the programme you can do with the hand held controller.
But the programme is easier to use and is normally no problem with xp. If there is a problem it's normally a faulty lead, take it apart and check the soldering is seperated and not bridging 2 wires.
Or Port number to high. Have a look in device manager and if it's a high number port change it. Mines on port 3.
What is your problem with the tri ?.

I opened up the USB port and the solder joints look clean. It's running on COM5. Is there any specific order you need to follow for this to connect? Power on last for FM, fire up the software first, whatever I try it does not see it. The driver looks good in the device manager.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by gquiring

I opened up the USB port and the solder joints look clean. It's running on COM5. Is there any specific order you need to follow for this to connect? Power on last for FM, fire up the software first, whatever I try it does not see it. The driver looks good in the device manager.

I normaly power up FM first, load the programme then connect usb, but its not critical. I can remove usb test fly and connect the usb and it will connect with the programme still running. Change the port to 1 2 or 3.

[gquiring]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

I normaly power up FM first, load the programme then connect usb, but its not critical. I can remove usb test fly and connect the usb and it will connect with the programme still running. Change the port to 1 2 or 3.

It's on COM1. Do I need a signal from the RX? I am using a 5v battery to power the FM with no receiver hooked up.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by gquiring

It's on COM1. Do I need a signal from the RX? I am using a 5v battery to power the FM with no receiver hooked up.

Yes you do, It will not connect unless FM is initialized, Flashing green led.
Connect the battery to the reciever, FM takes it's power from the Aileron channel.

[batman72]

Thanks Ivor on your comments. There must be something terribly wrong. the Flymentor seems to fly and track quite well at 100%. I have binded the Blue wire of the FM to channel 7 of my Turnigy 9x Tx and have turn up the variable knob all the way to max, which i assume is 100%.

I might need to do a bit of experiment. BTW, as adviced from Ivor, I have mounted the HK401B gyro behind the FM gyro by extending the tail boom holder platform using a piece of credit card plastic. What I can say, the heli flies beautifully.

I also solve a major problem on heli rocking forward and backward motion when hovering. The main blades were too tightly screwed to their blade grip. After loosening the screws a bit, I was able to get stable flight. Problem solve.

I was pretty lucky flying yesterday. After flying about 3 battery packs, hovering basically, I noticed the heli blades were not tracking that well. I stopped flying, when indoors to check the heli. Guess what? The blade grips were not tighly screwed to the feathering shaft. The screw has come loosed for one of the blades. Even though I put locktite, it seems that the screw got loosed by itself thru vibes. This time I put more locktite on the screw, but ensuring the excessive is cleaned away to prevent it from locking my bearing in the blade grip, I mounted the screws, tightly screwed them in. Both blade grips were very sturdy after that. Luckily I didnt order the original Align blade grips as I thought my blade grips has seen the last of its days.

On the issue of the tail rotor blade grips which were a bit wobbly which caused problems turning in smoothly in one direction, I was able to resolve it by greasing the tail rotor shaft. However, I ordered the original Align 450Pro tail rotor assembly as a backup just in case, but today, the heli flew beatifully.

Ok, enough said about the setup of my heli. So how did FM stand up to meet its main objective of stable flight. Last week, due to my lack of experience with FM, I could not get stable flight and I found it harder to control the heli then without FM. However, after help from Ivor and the rest of the gang here, all I can say, I LOVE THE FM device.

2 hours ago, at around 5:30pm, during twilight, with just enough sunlight to ensure FM can track in position mode properly, I did my first e-circuit, flying to and fro. I know, to many pros, you might be laughing that I am only starting out flying to and fro after 6 months into this hobby, well, I can tell you I was afraid I would do a major crash which will cost me lots of $$$$. I am not rich, hence I can't afford a major repair.

All this time, I have been practicing hovering. When I started, I could not even lift the heli off the ground. That took me about 2 months to perfect with many replacement parts. I practiced a lot in Phoenix and realized that 3D flying was not my forte. I saw many people love 3D aerobatics, and I've seen Alan Szobo control his Align helis as if it was connected to his brains, but I can't seem to get to do 3D aerobatics. However, I love flying e-circuits, flying to and fro and putting the heli thru maximum speed. Of course, this I perfected in the Pheonix simulator. However, as your guys know, the helis in Pheonix are almost 100% setup perfect and without wind and tempreture changes in the air, the heli in the simulator is just a breeze to hover, especially if you enable headlock mode.

Back to real life, as I said, I did my first e-circuits today on all 4 Turnigy 2200mAH 20S packs. The FM played a crucial part in this happenings. At around 20m above the ground I flew the heli up. It was very stable and the slight loosening of the blade grip screw has stopped the heli from doing a rock and roll front and back motion. With my heart pounding, I turned the the heli with the rudder to face my direction. The FM did its job of stabalizing the heli. At 20m+ above ground level, a 450 heli is kinda of small to see whether it is in stable flight or not. But with the FM in place, it stabalized the heli on the spot (I believe using balancing mode at that height). I pushed forward the cyclic and the heli started picking up speed as it moved forward. My heart was pounding hard. I told myself, "You've done it before in Phoenix, this should be a piece of cake". However, doing this for the first time in real life was amazingly exciting for me and also I felt my confident with FM installed. The heli sped past me to the left and I pulled the cyclic up to prevent the heli from flying away. Turned the heli around and did another pass. I kept doing this for a few minutes and all this time, when I felt I would loose it, I will let got of the cyclic stick and the heli will auto stablize. In fact, there were a few occasions I almost lost orientation of the heli, as I could not determine where the tail was, but FM saved the day.

Hence, I have started to love Flymentor and I would recommend it to anyone who has got into this hobby alone (I don't go flying with buddies) and only get feedback online from people like Ivor.

PS: However, for those who owns the Turnigy 9x transmitter and receiver, do you know what is the maximum range of the tx and rx, cause at almost 45m away, at one time, I remembered I almost lost input controls to the heli. And do you think I should upgrade the default firmware to ER9x?

[Ivor Hill]

I would not worry to much about gain values, if it works then it's fine.
The gain value set in the TX not the same as the gain value set in Helibal and can be adjusted useing endpoints.
If you go to channel 7 endpoints ( travels ) your are able to increase or decrease the values of the pot, so if you want a higher maximum increase the endpoint value.
Another way would be to set channel 7 to a switch and just use endpoints to set the gain useing endpoint, bit safer than useing a pot.
You should do a range check the TX manual should explain how. A 450 size heli should be out of sight before it is out of TX range
Glad your having fun.

[ahibrahim2009]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

They have been a few reports of some servo not being compatable but not many, it may be that the non adjustable pulse rate from FM is not compatable with some digital servo's, but I don't know.
Bear in mind that even expensive gyro's have to be matched with a compatable servo
The FM tail gyro can work as well as any cheap piezo gyro but most people do not like it and so use a seperate tail gyro.
It is normal for the servo to buzz a little when it is powererd up but not in use.
If it is giving you a problem then use a seperate gyro the $10 GA 250 is very small,works very well and the pulse rate is adjustable.
I now always fit the FM gyro under the heli, there is less vibration down there and if it's a 450 I fit 500 size skids. I use PU Gel and a velcro stap and fix the gyro right way up just forward of the rear skid. Many users are now doing this and are very happy with the results. Hope this helps.

well i got another gyros like the quark and the align gp780 but i just want to keep the FM as it is i dont want to use another gyro as i got no place to mount it on the heli so would u advice to replace the servo with another one like the hxt 500 or hxt900? (whitch i got already )
and theres another thing my hk450 is tt and the boom bearing stuk in the boom with an angle and i couldnt get it out and put it right and it causing me vibrations that makes the heli leans right when it's in position mode so any ideas how to take it out and put it right or do something with the double sided pad or what..?
i just dont know what to do as i tride manythings to make it stable under this kind vibration and i couldnt so any ideas?

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by ahibrahim2009

well i got another gyros like the quark and the align gp780 but i just want to keep the FM as it is i dont want to use another gyro as i got no place to mount it on the heli so would u advice to replace the servo with another one like the hxt 500 or hxt900? (whitch i got already )
and theres another thing my hk450 is tt and the boom bearing stuk in the boom with an angle and i couldnt get it out and put it right and it causing me vibrations that makes the heli leans right when it's in position mode so any ideas how to take it out and put it right or do something with the double sided pad or what..?
i just dont know what to do as i tride manythings to make it stable under this kind vibration and i couldnt so any ideas?

You could try fitting the FM gyro under the heli which is my prefered position, there is less vibration down there. You could try useing Align PU Gel to mount the FM gyro or even better Zeal Gel.
But the best advice I can give you is to convert the heli to belt drive. In my opinion TT were a step backwards and I would not recomend them.
BTW it is normal for a heli to slighly lean to the right. If FM is subjected to to much vibration it will flip the heli over and it will crash.

[ahibrahim2009]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

You could try fitting the FM gyro under the heli which is my prefered position, there is less vibration down there. You could try useing Align PU Gel to mount the FM gyro or even better Zeal Gel.
But the best advice I can give you is to convert the heli to belt drive. In my opinion TT were a step backwards and I would not recomend them.
BTW it is normal for a heli to slighly lean to the right. If FM is subjected to to much vibration it will flip the heli over and it will crash.

and what about the servo???
should i change it or ???
as it's always go to one side even if the heli was on the ground and it's also chaking and vibrating all the time.....
so would changing the servo will help or it's a gyro issue?

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by ahibrahim2009

and what about the servo???
should i change it or ???
as it's always go to one side even if the heli was on the ground and it's also chaking and vibrating all the time.....
so would changing the servo will help or it's a gyro issue?

Without having the heli in front of me I cannot say whether it is a problem or not but.
In heading hold the servo will always drift to one end when the heli is at a standstill, it's normal and not a problem. In normal mode it moves to center.
Tail servo's always buzz a little when the heli is at a standstill but you need to makes sure the servo it not traveling to far and jaming by adjusting the travel and make sure that the tail is easy to move, no binding. .

[ahibrahim2009]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

Without having the heli in front of me I cannot say whether it is a problem or not but.
In heading hold the servo will always drift to one end when the heli is at a standstill, it's normal and not a problem. In normal mode it moves to center.
Tail servo's always buzz a little when the heli is at a standstill but you need to makes sure the servo it not traveling to far and jaming by adjusting the travel and make sure that the tail is easy to move, no binding. .

well man i just dont know what to say ur so helpfull....
if i may ask one last q. i know i've been pain in the ..... by asking tooooo much.....
well my setup is as follows...
align 410m s cyclic
align 520 rudder
scorpion motor
2221-6 with max currnet 52 amp
turnigy plush 60 amp
and for sure the FM
all this on a spectrum ar6115e reciver
and the transmitter DX8
if u got any concern about anything in this setup plz tell me
and about the batteries zippy lipo 2200 20c but with this setup i found that the esc gets hot and the batteries too...would u tell me why and what can i do?
sorry for asking too much i'm just a beginner.....

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by ahibrahim2009

well man i just dont know what to say ur so helpfull....
if i may ask one last q. i know i've been pain in the ..... by asking tooooo much.....
well my setup is as follows...
align 410m s cyclic
align 520 rudder
scorpion motor
2221-6 with max currnet 52 amp
turnigy plush 60 amp
and for sure the FM
all this on a spectrum ar6115e reciver
and the transmitter DX8
if u got any concern about anything in this setup plz tell me
and about the batteries zippy lipo 2200 20c but with this setup i found that the esc gets hot and the batteries too...would u tell me why and what can i do?
sorry for asking too much i'm just a beginner.....

You dont say what size pinion your useing and the 2221-6 is not imho suitable unless your into insane 3D flying, it's to fast and will produce very high head speeds. A better choice would be the 2221-8.
I would not recommend useing a pinion bigger than 11 teeth with that motor.
If you are useing a pinion with more than 11 teeth it may be the reason for the overheating and in my opinion with that motor a 20c battery is not big enough.
You need to check the heli and make sure that everything is free to move, nothing is tight and the gears are not to tightly meshed. Tight gears are probably the biggest reason for overheating.
The 60 esc is an overkill on a 450 size heli and for it to be getting hot you must be pulling a lot of amps somewhere and you need to find out where.

[ahibrahim2009]

Originally Posted by Ivor Hill

You dont say what size pinion your useing and the 2221-6 is not imho suitable unless your into insane 3D flying, it's to fast and will produce very high head speeds. A better choice would be the 2221-8.
I would not recommend useing a pinion bigger than 11 teeth with that motor.
If you are useing a pinion with more than 11 teeth it may be the reason for the overheating and in my opinion with that motor a 20c battery is not big enough.
You need to check the heli and make sure that everything is free to move, nothing is tight and the gears are not to tightly meshed. Tight gears are probably the biggest reason for overheating.
The 60 esc is an overkill on a 450 size heli and for it to be getting hot you must be pulling a lot of amps somewhere and you need to find out where.

thanx man ur a good help.....

[batman72]

I was concerned about the Turnigy 9x range the other day. Well I found out about it the hard way. While flying the heli high with FM working flawlessly, I pushed the heli slightly over the edge in terms of range. and suddenly I noticed "The heli is not reacting to my inputs". Of course I panicked and watch helplessly as the heli started going into failsafe mode and then, dropped to the ground 30m below like a ball.

I was so angry with my myself. I spent so much time on money and effort to get the the FM working fine with the Turnigy 9x and it gave up on me. This time, it wasn't my skills that killed the heli, but rather the tx/rx gave lost signal.

Results:

1. Motor shaft on my Turnigy Typhoon 2215 broke off.
2. 2 HKT900 servo gears got ripped.
3. Tail boom bend into a U shape.
4. Tail rotor shaft bend.
5. Tail carbon fiber blade cracked.
6. Flybar bent.
7. Main blades cracked.
8. Slight crack on my Align 450 Pro canopy. (still reusable)
9. Main Align gear ripped off.

All electronics and FM were still working. Thank God. And using a carbon fiber body frame is really amazing, no part of the body frame broke. I've disassembled every part and checked it. Other parts like main rotor head, shaft and feathering shaft were suprisingly still ok. Thank God I changed it to the Align carbon shafts which are very strong.

Hence, a note to all FM and Turnigy users, don't fly your heli too far, or else you will face the same fate. This time, I will fly the heli within 20 m from where I am standing and no more.

[Ivor Hill]

If the heli goes out of TX range FM will continue to stabilize so the heli will remain level. If your failsafe is set to cut the throttle then yes the heli will come down but it will come down level.
If the heli did not come down level then it is possible that it did not go out of range but the power was cut for some reason.
I am not familar with the TX but is is possible that it is locked in range test which would greatly reduce it's range.
When you are up and running again you need to do a range test.
From what I have read the Turnigy 9x can be trusted up to 1000 metres and futher if converted to the Frsky system.

[batman72]

Well, from what I saw, I had no control over the heli, it sort of like wobbled slightly and the next few seconds, it came crashing down on the tarmac. Obviously it could be how I wired the ESC and the receiver. Initially I mounted the ESC in front of the heli right beside and below the battery tray. The FM was stuck to the right side of the heli just below the main gears and the RX was stuck to the left of the heli, also just below the main gear. Due to the size of the Towerpro H40A ESC (Good ESC but the size is not good for 450 heli frame), I could not properly fit the Align Canopy. Hence I shifted the ESC to the bottom of the heli, right in front of the CCD camera of the FM. I'm not sure if this setup had the ESC to close to the receiver and causing inteference. Furthermore, my receiver's antennae wire was tied together with the servo wires, hence that could also be a possibility of causing interruptions to the signal. It could also be the ESC might have been to close to the FM controller, causing unnecessary interference.

I heard that if you used those metal 'O' rings and wound the servo wires and ESC BEC wire round it, it will reduce the interferece. Is this true?

Anyway, I just bought a new ESC today, the EMAX 40A, which is was smaller than the Towerpro H40A and I should be able to fit that inside the frame right below the battery tray of the heli. I was comparing it with the Align 35A ESC, which was very small and was mounted just below the battery tray too. However, I was afraid my motor would burnt the ESC as it required 40A ESC.

Hence, tell me if wiring up the servo wires, BEC wires, FM wires are important and antennae wire should be tied not near to any other wires to ensure proper signal reception. What about the 'O' rings? Will it help reduce inteference in those servo/BEC wires?