IRCHA 2016 protos goes into the crowd

[JWeber]

I was three seats away from where it crashed. Several nearby people immediately rushed to the guy to make sure he was OK. Within less than 1 minute and probably closer to 30 seconds, IRCHA staff were at him and the announcer was asking everyone to stand back. Not sure how anything could have gone faster than it did. The medical people were at center stage but standing behind the crowd. We were in rows of chairs that we brought, so it wasn't crazy packed in there.

My only real complaint is that the announcer guy came off as pretty cold about it. It may just be a culture thing, but not a fan of how he handled it. The medical people however were top notch and fast to respond.

[im4711]

For all those pushing for safety nets a bit of a story from OHB this year.
They have a larger safety net and what happened??? The heli went over it and hit the ground about 6-7 yards from our tent. No one standing at that spot - so all was OK. Just to say ... safety net will not get you the safety you are asking for or you have to make it extremely large and thats simply not doable.

For all those arguing -> please make sure your home field or where you fly has safety nets installed. Thats the first step since that net is so important to you you should start at your local fields / flying locations.

What I do not say is that a safety net is bad. Tried to have one at our local field but cost and the real added safety is a hold back even there.
What I am saying is that its giving us a false safety feeling.

[babyuh1]

The big problem that I see at events like this and baseball games, etc, is that too many people aren't watching the action and have no clue when something goes wrong!
If you see it coming you have a chance to duck or move to protect yourself or your loved ones.

[learnedthehardway]

Don't see what the big fuss is about, spectators of many different sports events have been injured. Motorsports, baseball, hockey, skiing, mountain biking, ect, ect.

When I first moved to Michigan I went to watch the races at the local dirt oval track with another first timer. I was so buzzed up it didn't register why the first few rows of seating were empty, cool great seats!!

Not even 5 laps in I'd been nailed twice by rocks/dirt/rubber/?? traveling at the speed of light from being shot off their tires

It hurt like a */#!^&*&^##^;er, we moved back a few rows really quick but didn't cry about nets or safety even though the right chunk in the right spot could potentially kill someone.

All part of the excitement of live action and sometimes the best seats in the house cost more than you expect.

[OnTheSnap]

IRCHA already answered why no nets. US is a litigious society. Nets go up at IRCHA, then instead of it being an "at your own risk" situation for spectators, IRCHA takes all the responsibility for safety. This is the feedback they get from their legal team.

In Europe, it's not the same culture. Here we sue everyone to get as many $$ as we can get out of it.

Also, once nets are up center stage, they have to go up the entire flight line for the same reasons - IRCHA can't be negligent since they now assume responsibility for spectator safety.

So instead it's an "at your own risk" spectator event. You know there are heli's being flown hard at the flight line. If you want to sit front and center, there is a risk.

Yep, some US stuff is really lame this way.

[im4711]

@OnTheSnap - you are absolutely right plus in addition to it - with the energy in those machines - they come over the net very easy as I have seen multiple times now. So its false safety feeling putting them up. I rather have the people warned to watch out than give them wrong safety feel.

[learnedthehardway]

At least it looked like he hit TH immediately and the blades had stopped spinning by the time it touched down. Big enough machine to still hurt like a mofo but you'll certainly live, definitely could have been worse.

Is IRCHA like baseball, if you catch a foul heli do you get to keep it?? Lol

[3D Ambitions]

Originally Posted by im4711

For all those pushing for safety nets a bit of a story from OHB this year.
They have a larger safety net and what happened??? The heli went over it and hit the ground about 6-7 yards from our tent. No one standing at that spot - so all was OK. Just to say ... safety net will not get you the safety you are asking for or you have to make it extremely large and thats simply not doable.

For all those arguing -> please make sure your home field or where you fly has safety nets installed. Thats the first step since that net is so important to you you should start at your local fields / flying locations.

What I do not say is that a safety net is bad. Tried to have one at our local field but cost and the real added safety is a hold back even there.
What I am saying is that its giving us a false safety feeling.

You're comparing apples to oranges here . Why am I going to put up a safety net if I'm a solo flyer that flys in big empty lots with no people around and empty parks . As soon as i see one person start walking around the field I pack up and go home. Your argument is not valid in my case and I'd assume in most cases .

[im4711]

Originally Posted by 3D Ambitions

You're comparing apples to oranges here . Why am I going to put up a safety net if I'm a solo flyer that flys in big empty lots with no people around and empty parks . As soon as i see one person start walking around the field I pack up and go home. Your argument is not valid in my case and I'd assume in most cases .

sorry ... no intend to hurt you personally or hit you in person. I do not think I mentioned you in any of my posts - still my sincere apologies to you '3D Ambitions'.

My point still stays for the majority of the pilots. Not everyone has the situation flying in an isolated area where no human being shows up.

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by 3D Ambitions

You're comparing apples to oranges here . Why am I going to put up a safety net if I'm a solo flyer that flys in big empty lots with no people around and empty parks . As soon as i see one person start walking around the field I pack up and go home. Your argument is not valid in my case and I'd assume in most cases .

your also not supposed to fly anywhere that isn't an AMA field...

you should join a flying club.

[Larry227]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

your also not supposed to fly anywhere that isn't an AMA field...

you should join a flying club.

Then why does AMA insurance honor a claim if an accident happened at a non AMA site?

[3D Ambitions]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

your also not supposed to fly anywhere that isn't an AMA field...

you should join a flying club.

This is something I do for fun...I fly for fun . One of the few remaining things I do in my life that isn't structured and constantly being forced to abide by someone else's rules and judgement, that's why.

I live in a high desert town with big open sky's and lots of empty land around , why am I going to pay to fly in someone else's confines.

[Steve Graham]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

your also not supposed to fly anywhere that isn't an AMA field...

you should join a flying club.

The information you provided is inaccurate. Unfortunately it has been repeated so many times as to become tribal knowledge. To be blunt as an experienced member of the community and rep for several companies you SHOULD know better. This information is easy to find with a simple reference to the AMA safety code. A 5 minute call to the AMA is in order for anyone who questions what i'm saying.

[franklin_m]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

... So instead it's an "at your own risk" spectator event. You know there are heli's being flown hard at the flight line. If you want to sit front and center, there is a risk ...

My work is in risk management. My attorney has told me time and time again that "at your own risk" is not a shield. One can never waive gross negligence. So despite hold harmless agreements on the backs of many tickets, if an attorney can get a jury to agree there was gross negligence, there can still be a payout - and a big one. What is gross negligence? There isn't a precise definition, rather one based on prior cases and the jury's opinion. However, a good start is when "A person does not exercise the amount of care that a reasonably careful person would use under the circumstances; or a person does something that a reasonably careful person would not do under the circumstances."

When there's an injury, what often comes up is whether organizers knew or should have known that something like it could happen - and did they take reasonable precautions. Now, we can all disagree about what "reasonable" is, but we aren't the ones who get to decide. It's the jury that decides if what they did (or didn't do) was "reasonable."

Fact: a heli has gone into the crowd at an IRCHA event, and it's on film for tort attorneys to find. Is it "reasonable" for IRCHA to do nothing? Is it "reasonable" for IRCHA to operate under the assumption that each and every spectator understands the risk of a 700 size out of control helo hitting them (informed risk decision)? Can minors in the crowd make informed risk decisions?

IRCHA that has to decide how much risk it's willing to assume. It's all about how often they're willing to roll the dice. Even rare events do happen. As Dirty Harry once said "Do you feel lucky?"

[OnTheSnap]

Probably same argument is made for NASCAR or other events like air shows.

USA is horribly litigious, and as a result all the events and fun will be gone because we suck as a society when it comes to this stuff.

[franklin_m]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

Probably same argument is made for NASCAR or other events like air shows.

USA is horribly litigious, and as a result all the events and fun will be gone because we suck as a society when it comes to this stuff.

Yep. I'm pretty sure that in the last few years NASCAR increased the size and/or changed the design of catch fences? MLB is extending nets in a lot of parks. Upper decks are getting higher railing. Etc. Everyone wants tort reform...until they are the ones who get hurt and see someone with deep pockets that might be sued.

We have met the enemy, and it is us.

[Solmanbandit]

I will say that there is always some inherent danger when attending any event. Foul ball at a baseball game? Ramstein AB airshow disaster? People killed at the Reno Air races when a P-51 crashed into the stands? If you attend an event, you must realize that there is a possible danger, but you need to recognize that event organizers do try very hard to make it as safe as possible.

[franklin_m]

Originally Posted by Solmanbandit

I will say that there is always some inherent danger when attending any event. Foul ball at a baseball game? Ramstein AB airshow disaster? People killed at the Reno Air races when a P-51 crashed into the stands? If you attend an event, you must realize that there is a possible danger, but you need to recognize that event organizers do try very hard to make it as safe as possible.

True, but have you noticed MLB extending nets at stadiums? Or the changes made to crowd locations at Reno?

The hold harmless on the back of most tickets is worthless, because under the US legal system one can never waive right to pursue claim due to gross negligence. And injury attorneys often make the case for gross negligence by demonstrating that the event operator knew or should have known a bat into the stands or a crash into crowd was possible. They then make the case in front of a jury that they didn’t do enough to prevent it. Since juries are generally sympathetic to loss of life / severe injury, they oftentimes win.

The second tact used attacks the consent / hold harmless. That is often the injured people are not knowledgeable enough about the potential consequences, and without that complete understanding of the risks, the hold harmless is invalid - they didn’t know what they were signing.

[Helizy]

It's okay to fly for fun but we cannot take away the fact that accidents may happen at any day and at any time. The risk is there, especially when a crowd is present

[jonwold]

A normal flying field net would have caught this heli. Someone got hurt and was lucky not to have been seriously injured. When it is so obvious how easily this accident could have been prevented, it's ridiculous not to put up a net. Arguing against cheap, basic safety measures is the fastest way to get us all grounded.

What family will bring their children to an RC heli event after seeing this video, and reading about your attitudes towards human injury and safety? A parent who Googles "RC helicopter safety" lands on this thread, and do you think they are OK with their kid buying a first heli or letting them go to a local event after seeing this?