Which would you choose?

[Wild Steelhead]

Hi,

So I am relatively new to CP helps and SM flying a Nano CPS. It is very squirrelly so ordered a K110 as a better micro to fly in my backyard based on recommendations in HF. Also continuing to practice on the Sim.

I'm looking at what to get as my next bigger bird, and intend to join the local club for training and a place to fly. I have found three options in used Helis an wondering which you would pick, and why, or why you would stay away from something. These would would have to be shipped or local pick up far from me, but I can get a family member to help that may be local.

First is an Oxy3 with 3 blade head and two blade tail in like new condition with Spektrum AR7200X and fully ready to fly for $300. From everything I have read they are really nice birds, and that seems like a nice price.

Next is Trex 450 Pro DFC in excellent condition for $290 with BeastX and 2 batteries and all it needs is s Spektrum satellite, which I already have.

Last is a Trex 550E with Flybar using Align GP900 gyro. Basically new with ton of stuff including Heli bag, Align aluminum blade carrying case, Futaba 7C radio in aluminum case, training gear and parts and two batteries all for $500.

The Oxy3 is so cool, and seems like a great price. Is if too hard to fly as a step up?

The 450 sounds like a good size Heli with good technology and good price.

The 550E I really like because of getting in to a large size at s lower cost. Is it bad to continue learning on Flybar versus flybarless? I figure I can upgrade it later if I want.

Thanks for your input.

[Wargamer]

I'll stay out of the FB vs. FBL debate since I've only flown FBL. While any 550 will be much more stable than your other options, it's also a big step up in intimidation for a lot of people. I would check out your local club to get up close and personal with one before making that decision. (I also like the idea of gradually growing in size rather than jumping right to the big stuff, but that's just a personal bias.)

Can't comment on the 450 Pro other than to say that's an easier step up, size-wise, at a nice price.

I love my Oxy 3. I'm flying it in parallel with a 230S (because I couldn't decide which) as my step up. The AR7200X is supposed to be very easy to configure, and you can tune the Oxy to be anything from a sedate sport flier to a 3D monster. $300 complete is a great price, although you might want to think about switching to a 2-blade head for starters. Should be a quick change if it's already got a 2-blade tail.

I'll also offer that the 230S is a nice step up as well. It flies very well, is inexpensive to repair, and is not overpowered. Smack fliers will say it's underpowered, but remember it's really a novice-intermediate bird. But if the choice were between a new 230S for $250 and a nearly new Oxy for $300, I would go for the Oxy hands down.

[JWeber]

Another option is a Gaui X3. Better kit than the Align 450 and a pretty inexpensive option in that size category.

[learnedthehardway]

I would buy the Oxy at that price even if it was just to sit on a shelf till I was ready for it. Bnf Oxy with a 2 blade head for $300 is the steal of the year, 3 blade adds that much more value.

I absolutely agree you would want to start with a 2 blade head as it's much easier to setup and cheaper to repair. I love the Oxy and think it's one of the best helis on the planet.

I've heard a few times the trex helis with a tt driven tail are a PITA to repair and the Oxy is easy and actually enjoyable to work on.

I would choose the Oxy without a doubt, start out with a low throttle curve % and a good amount of expo as it's pretty fast and sensitive to stick movements due to the lack of slop and dfc setup, it responds to the slightest stick input.

I have an old Trex sport v2 converted to dfc and it's easy to repair and a tank in a crash, very forgiving and easy to fly. Parts are dirt cheap as well and it was dirt cheap. Might be worth looking around for a deal on one as I would recommend that over the pro. The X3 someone else mentioned is also an excellent choice, can't go wrong with an X3

[ryanha]

Given the 3 choices, my opinion would be to go for the TRex 450. I also think you could offer $200 and might be able to get it for $230 - $250 on a counter offer. As to why the 450, I will give my reasons below but first, have you seen these helis fly? I would strongly recommend asking someone from the club to inspect it or fly it before you by it. If that is not possible, then have them at least inspect it before you fly it. This should take at least 20-30 minutes and should include checking all the screws, spooling up w/o the blades, checking the FBL setup, etc.

Here is my thinking for the 450:

450 will spin 325 mm blades, I believe the Oxy spins 250s. The larger blades will give you more stability. Also tuning a 3 bladed head is extra complexity (and extra cost if you crash).

Learning the BeastX is relatively straight forward and there are lots of great videos on YouTube. Watch them. Print out the manual. Read it. Nothing worse than having a heli setup wrong and watching it wreck itself.

I would stay away from flybar heads at this point. There just are not that many people that even know how to tune/repair them at this point.

Good luck!

--Ryan

[Aryemis]

I would stay away from the Flybar 550, converting it to FBL will make it pretty expensive (and you don't want a flybar heli for learning these days).

The Oxy 3 is certainly a steal at that price, and is a great heli, so I would say the best option overall. If the 3 blade head is a bit of an issue, selling the 3 blade head will more than cover buying a new 2 blade head.

[felixthemaster]

I would defo go for the OXY. Ignoring my bias towards it, it's very well priced, will save you money in crashes, very high quality, and you don't need a huge amount of space to fly it.

Considering the Trex doesn't crash too well, and the repair is a PITA, it is not an attractive option even if parts are cheap.

My vote's on the OXY or an X3

[mgfiest]

if you're gonna lean toward a oxy.. you better go to their forum and get more info

https://www.helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=381

[Wild Steelhead]

So, things have changed a bit, and I've made my decision. The Trex 450 Pro DFC sold here before I could act on it, but a different, and I believe better, opportunity came along. A Trex 500L Dominator, new not fully built (about 90%), with all electronics and GPro FBL unit came available for $350 and I bought it. It is missing some servo links, but that's it...we'll see when it gets here. Assuming it is just missing some links, etc., sounded like an awesome deal for a new model helicopter, and I really liked the idea of it being bigger than the 450.

I intend to take my time completing the 500 when it gets here, which I recognize will not be as straightforward as a "clean" build from a kit. I'm very mechanical, have built a lot of RC airplanes from kits over the years, so I'm looking forward to this. However, what I'm really seeking advice on is how to proceed when I get the heli. What I mean is, I know most things have to be loctited, etc. but does that mean I should disassemble everything and redo it from scratch myself? I want to be thorough and careful, but if there are ways to tell/see if things have been properly assembled with Loctite, for example, that would be great to know. Building with, and using, Loctite is one thing I really haven't had to do with my past RC projects. Any articles/videos, etc. that you could point me to would be greatly appreciated.

So, when the K110 gets here I will continue to train on that, along with the Simulator, while I complete the 500. Tomorrow I head off to the RC Helicopter club for their monthly meeting, and I will join and ask them about whether they have a training program to work with instructors. While I can't wait to fly the 500, if they think I should move first to something like a Blade 230S after the K110, I would do it. I'll be comfortable having the 500 ready to go.

Thanks.

[Wargamer]

Great plan! The guys in your club will have some solid advice on checking out the 500, and will probably be happy to help.

One philosophy is to take everything apart and put it back together yourself. The other is to give it a good going over and take apart anything that looks suspect. With loctite, the idea is to check all the screws that go into metal. If you're not doing a complete re-assembly, just give them a light CCW twist; if they don't budge, they should be fine. When you find a loose one, take it out and re-loctite. You don't need much.

Any screws going into plastic don't get loctite since it can dissolve the plastic. Metal to plastic usually has enough friction that you don't need anything, but the other options are a little white glue or CA if you want them really secure

[ryanha]

The 550 is a great heli!

You might want to see if anyone at your club has experience with the GPro. For example, at my club, no one flys that unit and Align has had problems with previous FBL units. In fact Align has moved away from this unit and is starting to bundle their helis with the BeastX. There is a ton of info (youtube, etc.) on the BeastX and you probably could pick one up for $75 used and could probably get ~$50 for the GPro (some people love them). I am not saying necessarily the GPro is bad (I have no experience with it myself), I am just saying that you want to fly something that has some experts that can help at your club.

If the heli is new (like never flown), then the biggest concern is whether it was put together well. If it has been flown (and possibly crashed), then you definitely want to look at it even closer (condition of the servo gears, straightness of the shafts, etc.)

The most important screws are the ones that would cause a catastrophic failure if they failed. So most of the screws in the tail and the head and the drive train I would recommend disassembling and putting back together. Unless the person you got it from is a known experienced and meticulous heli mechanic, which is doubtful if he didn't finish the build.

One in particular that many people get wrong is the grub screws that hold the tail hub to the shaft. It is such a small screw and a lot of people under tighten or under-Loctite them. When that screw fails the tail will just start spinning uncontrollably and it is near impossible to save. I have even started putting a bit of Loctite inside the hub and turning it around the shaft so that it binds to the shaft.

Also a lot of people fail to tighten down the head bolts well enough (the ones that hold the blade grips to the feathering / spindle shaft). If this loosens up too much the blades will eject themselves which is really bad. There are a lot of bearings in that vicinity so a good way to secure it is to put the Loctite on the inside threads of the spindle shaft (e.g. instead of on the screw itself) with a toothpick.

If you decide to stay with the GPro (or with any FBL unit) you should definitely go through the setup again to make sure it is right. Also go through the ESC setup to make sure it is right. Those are things that someone at your club should be able to help with.


Last 2 pieces of advice:
- This is a big heli, so never plug it in in your house unless you at least have the main and tail blades taken off. Better yet, remove 2 of the motor plugs so there is no chance at all of an accidental spool up.
- Don't feel bad if it takes you 10+ flights of just hovering to feel comfortable. There is no shame in giving yourself time to acclimate.


--Ryan

[Blade Scraper]

Originally Posted by Wild Steelhead

So, when the K110 gets here I will continue to train on that, along with the Simulator, while I complete the 500. Tomorrow I head off to the RC Helicopter club for their monthly meeting, and I will join and ask them about whether they have a training program to work with instructors. While I can't wait to fly the 500, if they think I should move first to something like a Blade 230S after the K110, I would do it. I'll be comfortable having the 500 ready to go.

Thanks.

Solid plan. Regarding the questions you asked I didn't quote, the forum by Finless Bob is where I'd begin. Even though his videos are on flybar helis, it remains an excellent starting resource anyway since the fundamentals you asked about building are true whether the heli is flybarred or FBL, and regardless of whether its Trex or another brand,

Beyond that, there is a ton of knowledge but you have to dig around for it (do a lot of browsing).

I love YouTube as its the perfect supplement to a good write up: no matter how good the write up, you can't beat a video for seeing how something is done (of course).

Most of my time in the hobby was spent flying Fixed Pitch, so I've had to make the transition to CP and chose a similar route: lots of time on Phoenix translated well to the K110, which took crashes well and prepared me for my 180 CFX. I had the torque tube disengage during spool up on my 10th flight, and that led to total loss of tail hold with the heli about 2 feet above soft grass.

Hitting TH brought it down with the tail fin snapping on impact, but no other damage I've found yet (still dismantling it). Hindsight being 20-20, I could have caught that during the pre-flight just by rotating the mains and verifying the tail blades turned as well. But coming from direct drive tails, it was only after the crash that I realized this (first TT heli so somethings I will learn the hard way, but I got off light on that one).

That said, I had a good streak going before having my first crash, and I credit that to the sim time and practice on the K110. 180 CFX and 230S are often compared as they are both from Blade, and similar in size and price. I would consider a 180 CFX instead of a 230S.

To clarify this: I would consider it instead of a 230S in that I would look at both helis, see what their owners are saying about each, and pay particular attention to what owners of both helis have to say. I really like my 180 CFX and was considering that or the 230S (but not both - one heli in this class is sufficient for me), decided on the 180 CFX and have no regrets. You will find 230S owners who say the same of the 230S.

My take is that the 230S is a gentler flyer and more forgiving of mistakes inflight. Its also more visible. The 180 CFX has more power and is more 3D capable. Again, my take on them and I don't own a 230S so I'm only repeating what I've seen others with both say. This is why I suggest considering both, but won't recommend a heli I have over one I've never flown (wouldn't be fair to the 230S).

But your incremental approach matches my own and its been working out well for me.

Edit: an 'in between' heli like the 180 CFX or 230S is totally optional, and not any kind of 'requirement.' Budgetary considerations need to be taken into account as well as what your plans are for either a 180 CFX or 230S beyond the training phase. My 180 CFX is very 'portable' making it an easy grab 'n go heli as well as a warm up heli when I start flying my Chase. Those were additional factors in my buying it.

[toadiscoil]

I think you should definitely go and seek advice from your club. Being a member there will ease up the transition significantly. The 500 is a big and powerful heli, definitely not to start with in my opinion. But you got a good deal and already have it so just be careful with it. Again seek advice, and I would tear it all apart and start from scratch. I am not familiar with Align but I think the instructions are not that great so you may have to ask questions or look for build threads to get you going. Or there may be some pilots at your club willing to help you on build sessions, that would be the very best thing.

I would just take the time to tear it apart, do lots of research and buy electronics piece by piece, and assemble it slowly. I think you should not be in a rush, because rushing things in this hobby can be very bad, trust me I know. I am very impatient and have spent hundreds of unnecessary dollars repairing things for overlooking or rushing something.

Seems like you will get a small practice bird in the meantime, the K110 so just use that to start building confidence and practice. If you can proficiently pilot a small CP helicopter, a bigger one will come easier. It will be more intimidating to start with, but if you get it built and programmed right, you will be able to fly it without too much issue. The bigger they are the more stable, but take more time and care with checks before flying because if they crash they do lots more damage to themselves and to property or *gasp* someone.

Take your time, enjoy your practice heli and learn lots building and wrenching the big one until it is ready. Buying a used heli requires more work because you don't just put it together, but need to check for potential issues like small cracks, damaged bearings, damaged bolts, etc. If you feel not 100% confident just get a flybarless unit with Rescue for the 500. It works really well and will help you in the beginning while you transition into flying proficiently. I have started using it on my 230 S and it has been a big eye-opener for me how it can help you progress faster and regain confidence.

For sure the people on the appropriate sub forum will help. Helifreakers are awesome and always willing to help if you get stuck. But the club pilots help will be invaluable.

Good luck!