450L Dominator: So frustrating!

[doubletap]

Originally Posted by doubletap

how was your heading hold set up? mine is cranked up to 100 tx and interface rudde gain wouldnt hold....thanks.

Got some expert tip. Hopefully i get flight test.. Thanks to tim of assurance. Will work on this bird, and keep you posted.

[CrashNburn420]

That really sucks! What esc did you buy?

[dubd]

Originally Posted by CrashNburn420

That really sucks! What esc did you buy?

It was included Align ESC. LHS was nice enough to replace with the exact same Align ESC, which is the one that had the BEC failure.

[skunkworx]

Add a 2200µF capacitor to your battery port and it will likely prevent a lot of the problems on your bird. The internal is only a 3A and if you're on all digital servos you're likely overdrawing the BEC. I had the same issue using KST215s and I put on two caps and it stopped shutting down on me in flight. I thought my original 35X ESC was bad, but it just turned out to be a bad servo that killed everything on the bus, so that would be my guess on your problem.

Caps are cheap and you don't have to do anything fancy for it to work (other than soldering one up or building a connector for it). I have a total of 5300µF on my 450 and if I had monitoring software I'm pretty sure I'd have an incredibly low voltage ripple on it even with these crappy KSTs.

[jml79]

The stock align esc is only 3A???? WTH.

I found that 3A wasn't enough for FBL before adding the high end servos. I was getting brownouts with just some plain old 9g servos. Now I only run esc's with a 5A bec or run an external 5A bec. I eventually had to add a cap as well but that was to prevent said cheap servos from feeding reverse current into my FBL and causing the dreaded sat brownout. Luckily it was a known issue with the Vbar mini.

Now I have 3 FBL helis with 5A bec (either in the esc or external) and an extra cap in the system and haven't had an issue since.

[dubd]

Originally Posted by skunkworx

Add a 2200µF capacitor to your battery port and it will likely prevent a lot of the problems on your bird. The internal is only a 3A and if you're on all digital servos you're likely overdrawing the BEC. I had the same issue using KST215s and I put on two caps and it stopped shutting down on me in flight. I thought my original 35X ESC was bad, but it just turned out to be a bad servo that killed everything on the bus, so that would be my guess on your problem.

Caps are cheap and you don't have to do anything fancy for it to work (other than soldering one up or building a connector for it). I have a total of 5300µF on my 450 and if I had monitoring software I'm pretty sure I'd have an incredibly low voltage ripple on it even with these crappy KSTs.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll consider those options if I keep the Heli. However, I shouldn't have to modify the setup to get it to work successfully.

[Russell Harding]

Not a 3A BECs are created equal. The 3A rated BEC in my YGE 60 is better than the 5A in my talon 35. I have two identical helis and BEC telemetry logs.

Most folks seem to fly the stock equipment on the 450L without BEC problems.

[skunkworx]

I've run digital mini servos on my Atom 500 FBL for years and never had an issue (Hobbywing 60 Platinum, 3A internal BEC). I think some of that may be because the BEC can pull from 22.2V, but that's just a guess.

Some of these newer servos are rated to pull nearly 2A apiece at full stall current, but it would be an extremely rare case when you'd get close to that. The caps will help cover the gap between when the load hits and when the PWM catches up with the feedback circuit in the BEC, so that might be the huge difference between a "good" and a "bad" BEC that are rated for the same output. I've always wanted to throw some of them on a scope, but I don't have any of the probes that can handle the current.

[tourerjim]

Originally Posted by doubletap

hi, mine doesnt go hh, but i get the green light and my trans is set to 42... and it goes back to center... i set the parameter to 100 as you mentioned....

The 100 you mention is in setup & not parameters, you need to set tx gyro/gain switch to 100% using your tx setup in pc software then before using my setup set heli to Beginners Setting (Apply) then continue with my previous advice.

[doubletap]

Originally Posted by tourerjim

The 100 you mention is in setup & not parameters, you need to set tx gyro/gain switch to 100% using your tx setup in pc software then before using my setup set heli to Beginners Setting (Apply) then continue with my previous advice.

I will try that right now at 75 tx, , i got my parameter untouched to 80... Had a maiden last nigh it was drifting still, need to check my swash it was leveled using the swash plate tool, and servo arms are all 90 but my mid stick is 1.7 degrees... My pitch link are all screwed in.. My cyclic arms are 10.5mm... Whats next for me would be shorten my links from the cyclic to get zero and keep that arns 90 degrees or off 90 degrees but i get zero ar tx mid stick (50/50)
Thanks

[doubletap]

Originally Posted by doubletap

I will try that right now at 75 tx, , i got my parameter untouched to 80... Had a maiden last nigh it was drifting still, need to check my swash it was leveled using the swash plate tool, and servo arms are all 90 but my mid stick is 1.7 degrees... My pitch link are all screwed in.. My cyclic arms are 10.5mm... Whats next for me would be shorten my links from the cyclic to get zero and keep that arns 90 degrees or off 90 degrees but i get zero ar tx mid stick (50/50)
Thanks

I got it all sorted out... had some flight time a little drift to the left will go back to the setup and level the swash once again... but Im liking this gpro... its easy to set up especially the cyclic 8 degrees... ar7200bx 6 degrees was challenging for me to get the blue light... this gpro is nice and user friendly, I watched jeff Fassbinder's video more and more and Its helping a lot...

[Sefrez]

Originally Posted by jml79

The stock align esc is only 3A???? WTH.

I found that 3A wasn't enough for FBL before adding the high end servos. I was getting brownouts with just some plain old 9g servos. Now I only run esc's with a 5A bec or run an external 5A bec. I eventually had to add a cap as well but that was to prevent said cheap servos from feeding reverse current into my FBL and causing the dreaded sat brownout. Luckily it was a known issue with the Vbar mini.

Now I have 3 FBL helis with 5A bec (either in the esc or external) and an extra cap in the system and haven't had an issue since.

I'm unsure if you are referring to continuous ratings or burst ratings. In the manual, it states a 3A continuous 5A burst:
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=201d4...802EE22A%21960

on page 34.

Though I'm almost positive in my 3S manual version it was rated at a 6A burst. I guess that would make sense with the lower voltage.

With my stock setup, I haven't had any brownouts. But the 3A does seem to limit the possibilities in other electronic upgrades.

A lot of the castle ESC's state 5A BEC's, but they are actually referring to burst currents. I don't even know what some of their continuous current ratings are.

[CrashNburn420]

Originally Posted by doubletap

I got it all sorted out... had some flight time a little drift to the left will go back to the setup and level the swash once again... but Im liking this gpro... its easy to set up especially the cyclic 8 degrees... ar7200bx 6 degrees was challenging for me to get the blue light... this gpro is nice and user friendly, I watched jeff Fassbinder's video more and more and Its helping a lot...

I had trouble getting the 7200bx 6 degree as well. Ended up just setting it at 6 even though the light never changed to the correct color. Has worked fine for over 500 flights.

[doubletap]

Originally Posted by CrashNburn420

I had trouble getting the 7200bx 6 degree as well. Ended up just setting it at 6 even though the light never changed to the correct color. Has worked fine for over 500 flights.

Mine 6.5 blue then hit the button for next menu no looking back.... Its going and flying well right now i dont tweak it too much. But G pro all done in the interface.. It makes it easier cause you see some values...

[jml79]

Originally Posted by Sefrez

I'm unsure if you are referring to continuous ratings or burst ratings. In the manual, it states a 3A continuous 5A burst:
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=201d4...802EE22A%21960

on page 34.

Though I'm almost positive in my 3S manual version it was rated at a 6A burst. I guess that would make sense with the lower voltage.

With my stock setup, I haven't had any brownouts. But the 3A does seem to limit the possibilities in other electronic upgrades.

A lot of the castle ESC's state 5A BEC's, but they are actually referring to burst currents. I don't even know what some of their continuous current ratings are.

My CC Talon 35 is rated for 5A continious and 7A burst. My BEC is 5A/7.5A. The only one I'm not sure of is my YEP 40. It's rated for 5A but it doesn't specify continious or burst. My Hobbywing that wasn't powerful enough was rated for 3A continious and no published burst rating.

Personally I would prefer to have a continuos rating high enough to supply the peak load. Burst ratings shouldn't be considered when sizing a system.

[Acid Junkie]

2 months ago i bought too the 450L dominator......yea..same issue...tail wagging...and i use BeastX instead of Gpro.......i ve managed to almost eliminate it by reducing the tail gain to just 18% and i have very rarely wagging when the wind is strong.....again sometimes i have it again even at low speeds......so its weird so many people having this issue.....i have also checked for vibrations or anything.....everything is smooth.....! lets hope someone solves this for all of us cause its really fustrating to watch the tail like this even in a simple hover...:@

[AlvaSpeed]

check the bearings on the tail grips.
I have had to replace them even on new builds.
and some seem fine and only last for a couple of flights.

[lahannsven]

Hi dubd,

coming back to your original request. I have the same experience. The Trex450L comes with the vibrations closer to the Trex250. The Trex450 Pro DFC for sure was better.

The only solution I have so far is, lower the gyro and to tighten and fix the longer tail push rod.

The longer tail push rod often bents which results into vibrations.

Also move FBL to Microbeast.


Sven

[CBR240]

Wow, I'm amazed to read how many are having issue with 450L tail. I built 250s as my first "real"/kit RC Heli, so I understand how frustrating tail issues can be (BTW - our 250s fly great now and we really like them).

We (my son and I) have built 3 450L Dominators (6S) and have never had a bit of tail wag with any of the 3, except when #1 450L developed excessive slop in the tail (due to one of the screws backing out due to not being "loctite-ed", and then the whole tail unit gets beat). We are just astounded how solid the 450L tail is. I am sure most posting to this thread have more experience and Heli knowledge than I, so take this for what little it's worth

Things that may be "working in our favor":
- With the 250s getting rid of the push rod guides and just wrapping the rod in 1/8 inch Carbon Fiber tube helped a lot. And I just like our "home made" CF push rods, so we have done these on the 450s from the start. never even tried to fly a 450 without a CF push rod.
- With 450s, we started all 3 off with a KST DS515MG tail servo. To me this is a first class tail servo, but I'm no expert. Also using one of these powerful servos, it's important to get the tail limits correct, or the massive servo can beat the tail unit to death quickly.
- We have both ZYX-S and ZYX-S2 FBL units on all our Helis. For our level of flying these work great. But I doubt they are better than any of the name brands (IDK, never tried the name brands, and probably can't fly well enough to tell the difference) so I am not suggesting anyone move to a ZYX, just giving as point of reference. They can fly good even with a cheap gyro.
- We don't fly that hard. "Sport flying" with flips and loops. So we might not see what other do when they do inverted backwards fast loops, or whatever. I can pitch pump all of the 450L hard enough to scare me and the tail holds solid. We also fly the 450s in pretty high wind, and never see any wag.
- We had enough issues with cheap and under powered ESC/BEC on 250s that we now fly a "heavier than a brick" 30 Amp ESC in them and just don't have issues anymore. So on the 450s we started out with the Hobbywing platinum v3 50 amp ESC, and have yet to have any voltage droop or anything on the 450s (we have telemetry on Rx "pack voltage", so we would know).

That's all I got, and I know it's not much. I've received so much great help here, I'm just trying to give a little bit back.