Gyrobot Information and Configuration Thread

[kyalamikid]

OK so what is/and/or not a Gyrobot?

I was busy with a post on my conversion of my Trex 250 to FBL with the Gyrobot, and thought it may be better to post the GB configuration separate from the hardware (Trex 250). This way maybe we can have one source of information for the Gyrobot (700/900) for all helicopters, as one of its weaknesses is the sporadic information available for English speaking users. The configuration data may be uploaded to this thread to assist others with similar configurations/helis.
This information is what I have gleaned from posts, and observed from personal experience. Please feel free to add corrections and append more information. I will follow with my T250 configuration data. Firstly A FAQ of sorts:

A Gryobot is:

1.A stabilisation system, allowing :
a. Flybarless flight and you to rid your heli of flybar, mixing arms, precision bars etc.
b. Stabilised flight with flybar . (only system currently that allows for this)
2.A triple axis gyro (think 3 x very good quality gyros with closed loop PI adjustable gains, one on aileron, one on elevator and one of rudder)
3.A sophisticated mixer.
a.You know that swash menu in you radio? Its functionality is migrated to the GB.
b.You have to setup your radio for single servo swash (abandons all mixing in radio for swash)
4.GB 900 has accelerometers to give “hands off” control in certain beginner modes.
5.GB 700 does have the accelerometers (functionality seems diabled) but does not facilitate hands off flying..
6.The Gyrobot actually does have an indicator light at the bottom of the servo plug sockets, so it’s hard to see.
7.When plugged into the PC, the cable connecting to the GB does not supply power, so you will have to have power from a battery or receiver to the GB.
8.The Cockpit software that runs on a PC is just a display of the Gyrobot’s state. There is no capability to copy configurations to or from the PC, everything is stored in the Bot.
9.There is both an external hand held Cockpit programmer, as well as a USB cable based laptop/PC programmer.
10.Typically you need both, as new firmware upgrades require the PC, and the handheld Cockpit is more convenient to take to the field for adjustment.
a.I am using only the laptop as once the GB is setup, I am hoping to not need the handheld cockpit.
11. Has three separate memories or "banks" that can be used to store different parameters in. The switching of these is via a 2 or 3 position switch that you assign on your radio.
12. The gyro sense menu on you radio can not be configured to work. All gyro changes (gain, limits, etc) must be done via the Cockpit device or the PC/laptop.

A Gyrobot is not:

1.An auto pilot system.
a.Although it can stabilize (GB900) it does not fly to a point etc.
2.Well documented at this point in English.
3.Easily available outside of Germany.
a.HeliRND and ElekroRC are the only twp dealers I know of currently outside of Germany.

Gyroboter Helicopter Configuration Settings:

Gaui 200 - Maubouni
https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=13

Gaui 200 - Picofly
https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=14

Logo 10 - Jag72
https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=12


Trex500 - ZuvieleTeile
https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=50


Some interesting links:

Online Shops:
http://www.heli-rnd.com/
Morris is actively updating his site with GB information configuration help and files.

http://elektrorc.com/index.php?cPath=28_86

And of course, LF-Technik home of the manufacturer:
http://www.lf-technik.de/shop/index.php?language=en

Hands off Capability demonstration:
http://www.lf-technik.de/shop/shoppics/GB900bm.wmv

Probably one of the most comprehensive looks through of the Gyrobot and well worth sticking through:
http://www.rcheliplanet.com/index.php?topic=5050.0

Manual for Version 1.03 firmware:
http://www.lf-technik.de/shop/shoppi...03_english.pdf

Firmware V1.03 upgrade:
http://www.lf-technik.de/shop/shoppi...t900_v1.03.bin

Kai Bruckner competition flying with Roxxter and Gyrobot:
http://www.rcmovie.de/video/aa186f5a...kner%3Cfont%3E

Pictures of the GB range, Cockpit programmer and USB programmer..

[kyalamikid]

OK, so I chose a T250 as the pilot for my GB900. I am not a great flyer, and my thinking is to use beginner/acro mode of the GB900 to give me bail out capability. I have spent enough time fixing my T250 to know that I need one.

My thread on the mechanical conversion of the Trex 250 can be found here:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=136566

I found an earlier post with setups from guy who had managed to fly the 250 with the GB. So this was my starting point for my configuration.

I am not going to go through all of the menus and configuration options, as the manual does that adequately.

Firstly, I setup the device as per the manual for the following two menus:

1.Rudder Base
2.Swash Base

This is basically where you setup your heli and transmitter to match with the GB.
Next I used settings from another thread on the T250 to setup the tuning setting for both rudder and swash.
Then I spun her up and took off.

Impressions:
1.It is amazing how quiet and smooth the T250 becomes with the GB, its almost eerie. I really like it!
2.Stability is really great, better than a stock 250, which is already pretty good.
3.The rudder is not doing what I want it to do, actually neither is the elevator and aileron.
4.All controls are too slow and detached, but I decided to work with the rudder first.
So it all works, just needs tightening up.

Rudder
I know what my rudder should be behaving like, but what it was doing was weird. It would slowly move on stick input, and when it stops, it would bounce back in the other direction. This would only happen on left turns, right was no bounce but still too slow and still kind of vague.

I tried first of all adjusting ATV’s, which didn’t really help, it just did everything faster (ie turned quicker, and bounced quicker). There also seemed to be a drift.

It seemed to be insufficient gain to me, so I changed my base rudder setting (P=288, I-438) to something with a higher P value (drift and sluggishness) and lower I value. I used P=400 and I=250. The 250 rudder now handled much better. I reduced expo to 25% and 60% ATV. There is still some twitch but it’s looking good.

Elevator

Flew another pack like this, and now need to focus on the Elevator. I am going to try and up the P value from 245 to 350, and leave the I value at 445. At the moment cyclic feels a step or two behind what I am doing on the sticks.

Will report back tomorrow when there is light.

[kyalamikid]

Guys, maybe I am dumb here, but if I remember from setting up my other AVCS gyros, transmitter end points do not set pitch limits. They set speed. For example, if my pirouette rate is too slow, I up the end point values.

So, if my elevator is slow (feels like its always one step behind) would I not up my radio endpoints instead of P value in the gain settings of the GB for elevator?

I just tried to up my P values, and it makes squat difference to how quickly the elevator reaches max pitch. It is still at least .6 seconds behind my stick movements. If I raise the end points, it makes a dramatic difference in speed.

However, the pitch setting for elevator are too wild, something like 14 degrees, as this is set in the GB swash limits.

So my question is, should I not set the cyclic limits to say 8 degrees in the GB, and then use the end point adjustment on the radio to set how responsive I want the controls?

[Heli-RND]

Originally Posted by kyalamikid

So my question is, should I not set the cyclic limits to say 8 degrees in the GB, and then use the end point adjustment on the radio to set how responsive I want the controls?

You should set the cyclic limit to max, as much as you can, then adjust your end point to achieve the roll rate that you want, lower the end point if the heli is too wild for you, I like changing the Dual Rate in my Tx, that way I can keep the expo unchanged.


Very good write up, I was trying to post a set up manual in my site as what I did to the SK 360 but too bad I found the set up for GB is very easy to do but very time consuming to write. We can keep sharing in HF to keep things going and sharing fast

[Heli-RND]

GyroBot is also the only system that you can choose to fly with or without a flybar ... of course, flying with a flybar only gives you good stability as well as the auto leveling, not unleashing any power

[kyalamikid]

Thanks RND I will try it that way.

I have updated point 1 above.

[kyalamikid]

Still working on getting the elevator and aileron feeing right. I have got the ATV's at 40% on both now, so it is really sensitive. However I think I need to up the P gains on both as there is no crispness to these controls. They feel real mushy still.

I will up first elevator, and if works I will try increasing aileron.

[kyalamikid]

Wow! This P change fixed the mushiness for good! This thing is so stable and responsive now I am really impressed.

My rudder still needs more work, but the aileron/elevator control are already better than stock.

I will try and up the I gain on the rudder now. I will post my settings as soon as I feel it is a good well tried setup.

I also tried beginner and acro-beginner modes. They work very well, beginner is sort of fun for sweeping leaves from my driveway.

I am starting to really dig this thing! Patience pays off....

[Heli-RND]

Originally Posted by kyalamikid

Wow! This P change fixed the mushiness for good! This thing is so stable and responsive now I am really impressed.

My rudder still needs more work, but the aileron/elevator control are already better than stock.

I will try and up the I gain on the rudder now. I will post my settings as soon as I feel it is a good well tried setup.

I also tried beginner and acro-beginner modes. They work very well, beginner is sort of fun for sweeping leaves from my driveway.

I am starting to really dig this thing! Patience pays off....

That is the GyroBot, all you need to do is to play around with the parameters and you explore the real power

[kyalamikid]

Heli-RND, do you have tail setup tips? I have a touch of tennis racket effect, and uneven speed throughout the pirouette...?

Busy reading the stuff on your site.... looks good thanks.

[Heli-RND]

Below is the extraction from the manual, to make it easier to understand...

Increase P gain until you have a good lock in (or the stopping that you want) then increase I gain until you have a good tail hold... instead of the fast forward piro recommended in the manual, I do high speed sideways (mainly from right to left) to see if the tail holds
__________________________________________________ _______
Raise constantly the P-part in steps of 50 till the tailrotor locks in place abruptly after stopping from pirouettes. The P-part is responsible for fast and snappy stops of the tailrotor when flying pirouettes, but it cannot keep the rudder stable against the wind or with crosswind. This
must do the I-part. Now fly forward with average speed. During the flight fly pirouettes. Raise the I-part in steps of 50 till the pirouettes turn with constant speed.
Now raise the P-and I-part constantly till the tailrotor swings up when flying fast forward against the wind. Then reduce both parts till there is no more swinging up.
For fine adjustment you can either raise the I-part if the pirouetting rates do not seem to be constantly enough to you and reduce the P-part a little. If the abrupt stopping after pirouettes does not seem to be hard enough to you do the other way round (raise P, reduce I).

[kyalamikid]

Thanks HR I am going to try that.. I am have a short non flying break though....

Another question for you. I had my ATV's at 20% (as per manual) and programmed bank 3 to beginner acro. I make a habit of calibrating everything each time I make a change.

Then in a flurry of activity, I was upping ATV's and P & I gains on bank 1, calibrating as I made changes. Last night I was flying in my garage, and tried beginner acro again (it had worked well as advertised earlier beofre I made changes to bank 1). I hardly had control as the heli would not bank more than 2-3 degrees. Needless to say I had my first FBL crash (not serious but I need an hour or so to fix the link and reset the pitch).

So, my question is, could the fact that my ATV's have been increased, expo's changed,etc (all calibrating done only on bank 1) caused a out of sync issue with my transmitter settings?, ie do you have to re-calibrate on each bank if you make TX settings changes?

[mahbouni]

I'm using a GB900 in my Gaui 200 V2 FES. Here are my settings...

PHYSICAL SETUP
-----------------------
Hyperion DS09SCD's on cyclic. 10mm ball joint distance
Hyperion DS09GMD on tail. 6.5mm ball joint distance
Carbon Fiber tail linkage rod

GYROBOT SETUP
------------------------
Rudder Base: ServoType=Standard, RuddMin=-1000, RuddMax=+1000,
Rudder Tuning: P=+400, I=+350, Deadband=+30
Swash Base: ServoType=Standard, SwashLimit=+250, PitMin=-400, PitMax=+400
Swash Tuning: EleveP=+250, ElevI=+350, AileP=+250, AileI=+350, Deadband=30

[Picofly]

I am using a Gyrobot 700 in my Gaui EP200 FES with the following settings:

PHYSICAL SETUP:
------------------------------
- USB cable without cocpit box (there is no need to cange any parameters after setup is done...)
- Hyperion DS09GMD on tail, 6.5mm ball joint distance
- Inno-Lab HG-D202HB's on cyclic, 7.0 mm ball joint distance
- aileron & elevator endpoints +/- 35% (in transmitter)
- pitch endpoints +/- 80% (in transmitter)
- ail & ele expo 15% (in transmitter)

GYROBOT SETUP:
-------------------------------
- Tail servo type: ´Futaba S9253/54/57´
- Rudder min & max: 1500
- Rudder P: +350, Rudder I: +400
- Cyclic servo type: 'speed´
- Swashplate center: 0000,0000,0000
- Swashplate limit: +1000
- Pitch min & Pitch max: 1500
- Elevator P: +450, I: +450 EDIT: P 350 & I 400 is better if you fly in windy conditions
- Aileron P: +450, I: +450 EDIT: P 350 & I 400 is better if you fly in windy conditions
- Aileron & elevator feedback: +0070
- Deadband (for all three axis): 0030

EDIT: I noticed that my Ail & Ele P & I values were too high for windy conditions. My heli started to shake when a sharp gust hit it (average wind speed was 5 m/s peaks up to 8 m/s according my aneometer). I reduced Ail & Ele P to 350 and I to 400 and wagging disappeared.

[Heli-RND]

Freaks, we are firing up some serious discussion here, welcome to join mahbouni and picofly...

kyalamikid, First of all, do not switch between standard and any of the beginner mode in flight.... the system will reset itself to capture the reference horizon plane and it end up a crash for sure.

You mentioned setting Beginner Acro in Bank 3 but then you mentioned about Bank 1.. Hum, I think that is a typo. Now if you are in any of the beginner mode, and hardly move the cyclic (as soon as you center the stick, it returns to auto leveling, am I correct?)

Now it is time to extrat the "beginner" parameter part from the manual

__________________________________________________ ___
Now you firstly should adjust the “Beginner Gain” (for Beginner mode and Beginner Acro Mode). The value is right, if the model speedy moves back into the nearly horizontal position if you loose the sticks after short and powerful movements. Does it move back very slowly, you can increase the Beginner Gain. Does it move back very fast (like a spring), you can decrease it a little.

Now you can adjust the “Beginner Override” (for Beginnermode
and Beginner Acro Mode). The higher you adjust this value, the
more you can override (trim) the Helicopter. That means the more
the flight characteristics will be simpilar to an “normal” Flybar Helicopter or to a Helicopter with Gyrobot in Standardmode. So you are able to habituate yourself step by step to a normal helicopter.

If you adjust the Beginner Override to low, you hardly can “trim” the
model with the sticks. So you must keep the stick in one position
very long for overriding the Beginnermode or Beginner Acro Mode.
The best value for Beginners is found if you can trim the model with
normal stick moves of of about one second of time (but not too
much, because then the Beginnermodes work less).

With the Beginner Angle (not for Beginner Acro Mode) you can
adjust the maximum tilt angle of the model if you move the stick to
the maximum position and keep it there. The lower you adjust the
Beginner Angle the lower is the maximum tilt angle of the model, so
with low Beginner Angle the model is very very stable.

[SpeedVision]

Ok, another Bot 700 chiming in here...

Trex 600 E.

kyalamikid - You rock... Great thread header.

One correction >> "5.GB 700 does not (have the accelerometers)" = False

My 700 has them. That's why the 700 can be upgraded to a 900...

Question - My Z-axis accelerometer reads +345 on the ground, is this correct? I see this during the "check it" menu.

I too have the tail bounce. I've really struggled to get the tail the way I want it (GY401ish). My tail bounce happens after any right rudder. Any higher on P and I get the wag back... P=500, I=375, DB=30

>>>Edit<<< Lowered my I to 300 and the bounce was much better. Tomorrow I will try dropping P a few levels to see if that finishes what i would call a "nervous stop" vs. a bounce.

Can someone translate this tail setup description for me?:

"Now raise the P-and I-part constantly till the tailrotor swings up when flying fast forward against the wind." Not following "up"... Maybe I'm not that smart...

[kyalamikid]

Originally Posted by SpeedVision

Ok, another Bot 700 chiming in here...

Trex 600 E.

Brilliant SV, please give your full config for the T600E when you have it working well so that I can create and Index at the first page

Originally Posted by SpeedVision

kyalamikid - You rock... Great thread header.

One correction >> "5.GB 700 does not (have the accelerometers)" = False

My 700 has them. That's why the 700 can be upgraded to a 900...

Thanks! And thanks for the correction, I assumes than that firmware is the only difference, can you confirm this?

Originally Posted by SpeedVision

Question - My Z-axis accelerometer reads +345 on the ground, is this correct? I see this during the "check it" menu..

If I remember correctly, this is the same on mine, and is normal. If you hold the heli vertical it will go to 0, and if you rotate it past 90 degrees it foes negatics. Nose down is also 0. I will check tonight, but I seem to remember this is the Z axis that does this.

Originally Posted by SpeedVision

I too have the tail bounce. I've really struggled to get the tail the way I want it (GY401ish). My tail bounce happens after any right rudder. Any higher on P and I get the wag back... P=500, I=375, DB=30

I have a similar issue, and have just put my T250 back together after a slight crash, so I will be tuning on a turntable tonight. I will let you know how it goes.

Originally Posted by SpeedVision

Can someone translate this tail setup description for me?:

"Now raise the P-and I-part constantly till the tailrotor swings up when flying fast forward against the wind." Not following "up"... Maybe I'm not that smart...

I am also mulling over this and havent a clue how to intepret, so my smartness level must be out as well Maybe HRND can comment...?

[kyalamikid]

Welcome again to mahbouni and picofly and thanks for contributing your settings. I am working on an index in the first post to reference setup posts to make it easier for people to find information.

As you guys have more experience than most, can you perhaps help SV above with his tail?

[SpeedVision]

Brilliant SV, please give your full config for the T600E when you have it working well so that I can create and Index at the first page

We'll do!

Thanks! And thanks for the correction, I assumes than that firmware is the only difference, can you confirm this?

From what I understand the only difference between the two is the factory installed software...and the 700 has a high quality plastic case (that's a couple grams ligher)...

Two other items to ponder:

1. If you hold the menu button down during calibration it shows unfimiliar values for aileron, elevator and rudder... Anybody know what these values represent???

2. Does anyone go to the "check it" menu to exactly center pitch before calibration? Is this extra step even necessary?

[Picofly]

Originally Posted by SpeedVision

We'll do!

2. Does anyone go to the "check it" menu to exactly center pitch before calibration? Is this extra step even necessary?

I have never done that. I just center the sticks and press 'calibrate'. Does the manual recommend that kind of procedure?