Logo 500SE maiden - and crash

[thefrog]

I maidened my Logo today and it ended badly.

I've attached the log file - it doesn't show any obvious inputs or log entries, but there's something seriously funky about the data it contains, but more of that later.First off, about the build - this is a new build, new SK. Setup is:

Logo 500SE, Scorpion 4025-110, Hobby Wing 100A Pro, Align DS610s + DS650, Castle BEC Pro, Skookum SK720, DSMX Rx sats in DSM2 (1024) mode, DX7 Tx.

I noted a few weird things during the setup but couldn't figure them out. For example the D/R doesn't work correctly, when moving from normal to idle 1 it shouldn't change dual rate/expo, but it does. When spooling the heli up the throttle did nothing until mid stick and then kicked in. I set up the SK and then set the end points of the ESC. So I'm wondering if there's a comm issue between the Tx and SK. Remember I am using DSMX Rx sats (can't get DSM2 anymore) and they're set up as DSM2/1024 in the SK.

Now for the flight details. I fly with the self level off (bank 1) and on + invert in the second channel (bank 2). I tested the self level at 1:00 into the flight. The heli rolled left (you can see my right cyclic input in the log) and I switched it off. Thought I'd check it out later. I was flying in idle 1 at this point, just getting a feel for the heli. I flipped to idle 2 and all seemed ok. I gave it a collective pop (first one) and it climbed straight, then rolled left and I lost control and the heli took a dirt nap.

To be continued.. I need to explain the weirdness in the log.

[thefrog]

Things I noted in the log as they came up:

Around 40 seconds the vibes drop to zero and the overall acceleration goes to 75m/s! This ends at around 60 seconds, around when I flipped on the self level. When I enabled self level the heli rolled left - you can see my corrective cyclic input.

The log also doesn't show the change in throttle position from idle 1 to idle 2. It works on the bench - you can see in the software how the throttle position changes. Also the headspeed doesn't change according to the log but it did in reality (2000 to 2200).

Around 77.7seconds the cyclic inputs go to zero and at 79 seconds the collective goes from +27% to -45%. It doesn't show my big collective input though. At 76 seconds the throttle goes to zero. The impact appears to be at 82 seconds but acceleration stays at 150m/s until 91 seconds.

These inputs don't make much sense to me. I don't think I hit hold and let go of the cyclic so it could hang in the air for 6 seconds before hitting the ground. Also, to hit the ground for 9 seconds also doesn't make sense.

I'm going to consider two things:

a) that the DSMX sats in DSM2/1024 mode aren't working.
b) the SK has some trouble receiving/processing imputs and outputs.

I will test the DSMX sats tonight by swapping the DSM2 units from my Kasama. I can't do much about the SK though - I await your feedback and will contact Skookum on Monday.

Sucks to be down after only a minute though.

[georgi UK]

=] oh Froggy my weekend was going so well, sorry to see this news,

where do we start? the RF is solid, same for voltage, vibes are perfect. there is no mechanical fail warnings, in fact the event log shows there isn't one!

I think the first hint is at 10 secs in, the vibes zero and the accelerometers flat line, at close to 40 secs we see a heli with zero recordings for the gyro's but the playback continued, it revived itself at the 60 sec point where you bank switched, at the close to 80 sec part it drops out again.

you need to get this log to SK, and the unit would be my advice. please keep us posted and have a quiet beer or two on me





georgi.

[thefrog]

Originally Posted by gmcallister

=]
you need to get this log to SK, and the unit would be my advice. please keep us posted and have a quiet beer or two on me

I'm on the same page here - am doing a final test of the Rx sats (DSMX vs DSM2) to rule that out. As you said - the clues are there - flat line from accelerometers speaks volumes, and mechanically my build seemed good (working on Kasama has made me very aware of the importance of the build.. ).

Will send the log off to Skookum later this weekend, hopefully they can shed some light. Unfortunately it probably means close to a month without an SK - unless I buy another direct and ship this coming week (sounds expensive though).

So back to my Srimok beater tomorrow then.. could be worse hey..

EDIT: Tested DSM2 sats and it still doesn't do the D/R expo properly.

[georgi UK]

=] I'm sure SK will advise you to return the unit, and x-ship you a new one to speed things up maybe?

the RF looks good, in fact perfect from what I can tell. this would not cause abnormal accelerometer readings,

it could be something getting into the SK from an external source? needs SK tech on this!

[Jamesppp]

can you download the Skookum file reader software to view the files before buying the 720?
I want to put one on my Logo and have just started looking into it.

[thefrog]

Originally Posted by Jamesppp

can you download the Skookum file reader software to view the files before buying the 720?
I want to put one on my Logo and have just started looking into it.

Yes you can download the software from here:

http://www.skookumrobotics.com/updates/

I know mine had a glitch but that's nothing to do with the Logo/Skookum combo. I think they'll work together very well - the Logo is a very smooth airframe and the Skookum likes that.

[KDS NIC]

Hey Froggie

Sorry to hear, I had an issue with my Sk unit got hold of robert robert@skookumrobotics.com
He sent me a new one 2 days after I posted the faulty one received it in 10 days as for logo spares good luck> Sam at AC had to strip a kit to give me a new tail boom for my 400se.

Cheers
Nic

[Jamesppp]

Originally Posted by thefrog

Yes you can download the software from here:

http://www.skookumrobotics.com/updates/

I know mine had a glitch but that's nothing to do with the Logo/Skookum combo. I think they'll work together very well - the Logo is a very smooth airframe and the Skookum likes that.

Thanks, sorry about the problem you are having.

I watched the "video log" of your flight and it looks like you successfully landed the heli...on 1 skid. I dont know enough about the Skookum 720 to know what is going on yet but I really want the SL feature. I am being prompted tp purchase a key for the software but as I said, the vid did open and play

Jimmy

[thefrog]

Art already emailed me to say he's swapping out the unit. Thank you.

[thefrog]

Originally Posted by Jamesppp

I watched the "video log" of your flight and it looks like you successfully landed the heli...on 1 skid. I dont know enough about the Skookum 720 to know what is going on yet but I really want the SL feature. I am being prompted tp purchase a key for the software but as I said, the vid did open and play

Jimmy

Jimmy the video doesn't give a completely accurate picture. What you see is a reconstruction of the flight based on sensor information. So no I didn't land on one skid - it hit the ground and cartwheeled.

But to explain how it does work well - today on my nitro I looped into inverted forward flight. I got confused for a moment and forgot my inputs. So I switched on self leveling and let the heli hover invert until my brain caught up. That's where it helps me big time.

[Jamesppp]

That is exactly why I want it. I have a touch od dyslexia and I can lose orientation for no apparent reason.If I canflip a switcxh and have a second or so to get my sh...act together I really think that it would get me over this brick wall Ive hit.

Ive been flying RC for 20+ years and flying Helis since the beginning of 2008

Went plane crazy again in 09 and now trying to get my heli skills wherte they should be.

Ill never be great at this but I enjoy the building and tinkering as well as flying..Im slow to repair crash damaged helis though. I dont crash much becauise Im not being aggressive enough..I think the SK 720 will help me.

[thefrog]

Originally Posted by KDS NIC

Hey Froggie

Sorry to hear, I had an issue with my Sk unit got hold of robert robert@skookumrobotics.com
He sent me a new one 2 days after I posted the faulty one received it in 10 days as for logo spares good luck> Sam at AC had to strip a kit to give me a new tail boom for my 400se.

Cheers
Nic

Thanks Nic - I got the replacement parts from AC this morning. I think the Logo will be down for some upgrades while I wait for the new SK unit. Who did you use to ship your unit back to Canada? It's not a cheap exercise..

[KDS NIC]

Just sent it normal airmail with tracking number.
Please PM me your number.

Cheers

Nic

[thefrog]

So the heli is rebuilt already, it's just short a controller. I'm hoping to use the down time to order a new set of servos for it.

EDIT: I shipped the unit to Skookum this morning..

[Jamesppp]

Which servos are you going to use?
I ordered a Skookum 720 for my 5003d. My stock swash has the skinny 2mm arms on balls. I should probably upgrade with a Quick UK for <70$ but will probably wait. I also ordered the Mikado FBL head . I was very tempted to get a Compass head. They sure look good. I decided to keep it Mikado but they'd looks a bit dated with the seperate swash follower.
I also have a boom and belt from a Logo 600dx. The old cheaper kit with only a few bearings.
I've not flown with the dx boom but others have. 600mm blades work with it. I have a Scorpion 4020-1100 on it. It would be better with my Scorpion 4025 if i do the 600 blades. Probably should keep it like it is for the FBL upgrades. I don't have any FBL blades yet. Which ones should I get?
Since you had problems with your 720 I'm sure I will be fun shy on the first flight with it.
Hope everything goes perfectly for you on the second go round Frog.

[thefrog]

Originally Posted by Jamesppp

Which servos are you going to use?
I ordered a Skookum 720 for my 5003d. My stock swash has the skinny 2mm arms on balls. I should probably upgrade with a Quick UK for <70$ but will probably wait. I also ordered the Mikado FBL head . I was very tempted to get a Compass head. They sure look good. I decided to keep it Mikado but they'd looks a bit dated with the seperate swash follower.
I also have a boom and belt from a Logo 600dx. The old cheaper kit with only a few bearings.
I've not flown with the dx boom but others have. 600mm blades work with it. I have a Scorpion 4020-1100 on it. It would be better with my Scorpion 4025 if i do the 600 blades. Probably should keep it like it is for the FBL upgrades. I don't have any FBL blades yet. Which ones should I get?
Since you had problems with your 720 I'm sure I will be fun shy on the first flight with it.
Hope everything goes perfectly for you on the second go round Frog.

I'm not doing anything exciting with the servos. I run JR 8915 cyclics on my Kasama so I'll buy the same for my 500SE. It is running as a 550 with a Scorpion 4025-1100, swinging Edge 553 blades. I've never used Edge before but ordered some for my 700 anyway. I use Radix v2 on my 700 and I find they are very stable but can be a little slow on response. I've also used Mavrikk Ultras on my 550 and they had good pop but did feel a bit soft.

I'm an average pilot so maybe not the best placed to give advice. I was thinking of sticking this setup back in my Trex 550 and making the 500SE a 600. The problem I have with that is cost - it implies 10S, new motor, new esc, new batteries.

[Luvmyhelis]

Yeah, but when you stretch a heli it has lots of advantages. One, you loose the porky add on weight of the larger heli. Two, you pick up the stability of that larger heli. Three, you gain incredible performance gains due to the lighter weight and power to weight ratio. Just to mention a few. And if you are considering 10s, might as well go all the way to 12.

To me it doesn't make a difference whether or not I am buying a larger frame heli or stretching. Either or, I am going to eliminate most the factory stock parts due to plain poor quality issues. So, in a sense both are going to cost about the same. But one is certainly going to perform better in the end.

[thefrog]

So this is an interesting update...

I've grounded my Kasama pending some some long term maintenance and last night I decided to install my remaining SK in the Logo and finish the setup. The install was easy enough - I'd already put the bus in so it was a matter of connecting three cables. I loaded my Logo config file onto the SK and started running through the setup.

I immediately found I was having the same issues as with the SK unit that crashed two weeks before. The issues were - difficulty binding to the Tx, difficulty initialising, D/R not being applied properly, difficulty getting throttle end points set. Throttle not responding properly to inputs. I thought maybe it was a Tx issue or a compatibility issue with the DSMX sats.

I tried quite a few things - Created a new model on the TX - no change, swapped the DSMX sats for DSM2 - no change, reset the gyro again - no change. Finally I loaded an old test configuration (from my Trex). All of a sudden the SK responded perfectly! I then loaded a Basic 3D setup and build my Logo config from scratch. All of a sudden its working the way it should. So it seems the config file is corrupt...


So this leaves me wondering if I sent back a perfectly healthy SK? Was it all down to a dodgy config file? I'm not convinced that's the full answer. I think the corrupt config file gave me the difficultly I experienced and could even have caused the uncommanded inputs in flight. However, the weird log with the zero values from the accelerometers and uncommanded roll in SL mode is firmware based, not config based. This makes me wonder if a faulty unit can corrupt a config file.. stands to reason it's a possibility.

So tonight I'll finish my setup and hopefully this week I'll find some time to do another test flight. I'm honestly nervous and not very eager to do this - but hopefully I can get it over with and fly the Logo.

[Jamesppp]

Good luck
I sure would like to see some pics of your setup. I'm having a little trouble deciding exactly how to mount my unit where both the USB plug and the pins on the unit are easily accessible while I wait for the power bus to come.
Your L 600 is roomier than my 500
Thanks