Look out Scorpion, there's a new purple motor in town

[boofy]

wow. that thing is screaming. i know the eox will be overkill, but at least it wont fall apart like others have reported with the stock motor.

[ininverno]

Here is my 300x fully upgraded std battery and plastic main blade. I fly the 2214 at higher head speed. After a fly as this one motor and esc are just cool.
I belive a video talk more than many words.

300X - FULLY LYNX UPGRADED - VIDEO 08-12-13 03 (3 min 31 sec)

About the theory because is theory that motor with more copper run better we discovered is not always correct and in our design we choose single wire.
Other spech become evident when you fly and you want a lot.

If Lynx can run higher volume the cost will be lower but we are small company and I need play with our resource pointing in high quality..
Enjoy the video.. The last say with the last CF 250mm mains we just release fly even better.. In the Stretch will be just amazing.

300X - FULLY LYNX UPGRADED - VIDEO 08-12-13 03 (3 min 31 sec)

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Uriah]

Originally Posted by xokia

Sorry it's just not going to happen. Who a company contracts with is also considered intellectual property. If every company knew where to go to get cheap parts made that make your market tougher to compete in. Your business contacts should be treated with the same protections as any other IP. Unfortunately in many other parts of the world the have very light copyright laws. For instance in China you only need to change 2 things to copy and sell someone else's IP. Color can be one thing and maybe a graphic being the other. Nothing really technically advanced about producing a plastic blade but if you out source to foreign countries it's just about guaranteed your design will be copied.

I think you missed the point of my post; perhaps I worded it wrong. Lynx is a privately owned company that doesn't have to disclose anything to the public about their day to day operations. That's fine. Publicly owned companies don't have that luxary, which is why we know that Foxconn, Samsung, and LG are the companies that are manufacturing Apple's iPhone. Does that stop people from buying the iPhone? No. The point is, until Lynx, MicroHeli, RakonHeli, Fusuno, etc. come out and at least explain their business model, people like me questioning the way they conduct themselves aren't going to be silent. The fact that all of these aftermarket/hop-up heli companies are based in Vietnam and the fact that all of their prices are rarely more than 10% apart from each other is very strange. This mantra of "here's our products, don't ask where they came from or how they're made" is getting old. A lot of these parts are selling at five or six times their production cost. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Does it give me reason to question their methods? Yes. A lot of these companies are selling the exact same products but have apparently just re-branded them. Is there anything wrong with that? You tell me. That's why I brought up the topic. If these companies have legal contracts and agreements made that allow for this then I'm cool with it, but if they're stealing the intellectual property rights from each other, that's not cool. That's my whole point. These companies can either continue operating in the shade or come out and explain what's going on. This type of thing is not new and many sports, hobbies, and industries suffer from it. But it's more apparent with the R/C hobby, particularly with R/C aircraft, because the target audience is so small and close knit.

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by ininverno

I belive a video talk more than many words.

Indeed!

[xokia]

Originally Posted by Uriah

A lot of these parts are selling at five or six times their production cost. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Does it give me reason to question their methods? Yes. A lot of these companies are selling the exact same products but have apparently just re-branded them. Is there anything wrong with that?

Doesn't matter how much they can get it made for. You can't get it made for what they can and you don't have the contacts to get it made for cheaper. This is the reason why they would want to protect their source. Every company is going to try and sell for as much profit as possible. You would be an idiot if you didn't.

Ever wonder why places like Costco have special models of tvs that are exactly the same as models sold in other stores? But the model number is different. It's a dumb game retailers play to keep people in the dark and from comparing prices. It also allows Costco to sell below MAP on a specific model because its not the same model

[Furias15x]

Having some experience importing fixed wing arfs from China I would like to weigh in a little. It is most likely the same manufacturer that makes the parts for all of these different companies. They just label them differently at the plant. They aren’t actually stealing IP from each other. The selling company has their own ideas and their own designs. They are presented to the manufacturer and a price point for a certain amount of production number is reached. Then a price is set that the public will go for. There is a real possibility the manufacturer also produces other items for other companies that have nothing to do with RC. That was the case with our manufacturer. The employees were rotated on a regular basis from building fixed wing wooden model aircraft and small home appliances. It was a very odd combination but believe it or not the quality was pretty darn good.

The price point being similar across companies is because the products are similar. Why would a tail case from X be that much different if it is from Y? The only real reason is number of parts from the original order. The more you contract to build the less you pay on the front end. One company can undercut the other by a small amount but it isn’t much. The real difference is their design and how the product works. In our case each item cost was about $55.00 that included the shipping (divided across whole order) to us by container. Our sale price was at $200.00, plus shipping, on initial release and after 6-8 months if not gone it would be cut to $185.00 and that would kill off the inventory. The lag time to receive the parts was about 6 months +/- 30 days. Usually plus 30 days. I am thinking that is why you don’t see a real specific release date hit on these items from the sellers. They have a general idea when they will get their items after they clear the prototype for production but it's not an exact science. The manufacturers are under a huge load at all times. Get in line and wait your turn is basically how it works.

We had a good run with our stuff and our customers loved it and still ask for more today. Even though we don’t sell any more of it. The manufacturer is no longer in business. No reason given. Finding a new one proved to be too much of a task. We moved on.

[Centurian]

Quite a ways off topic. I would wager Lynx has no or very little manufacturing capacity. They buy some items on the open market(plastic parts, cf blades and canopies painted to spec, servos and I'd bet motors) and have some items contract manufactured (machined parts). Obviously the line blurs a bit as open market items can be customized to order. I'm guessing lynx paid tooling costs on the 300x blades but we're starting to see what they got for their money as they become available from other vendors. I think Luca does do most of the design work on the items they sub out for manufacture and specs semi custom items. I'd guess that Lynx's payroll consists of less than 10 people, Luca, Anna and a few warehouse people that may be additionally tasked with packing products for shipment. I could be wrong but I'm sure that very very little is actually made by lynx. Don't hold this against lynx, that's just how it's done in the current world. I'd bet that 95% of all carbon blades come from 3 or 4 actual manufacturers. I don't think the situation is much different for other asian vendors. MH might build some of their own stuff but if so I'd bet the heli stuff is a small part of their business. Not sure why I feel that way but they have been around quite a while and I'm guessing they make something like computer parts and some higher up in the company likes toy helis and started making bits.

All that being said, I would also bet that HH/Blade has less than 10 employees stationed in asia and most likely zero.

I've spent a few years in asia, I've been in a few manufacturing facilities, I've seen the busses hauling workers in from the countryside to happily make a $2.50-10.00/ day(12+hrs/day 6 days a week). There are big manufacturers out there but there a many many many companies that do nothing but make goods on contract for marketing companies. Successful marketing is a highly coveted skill in asia that pays WAY above average returns. Anyone can make stuff but ya gotta have connections to move said goods. Lynx and their "team" have done a great job of marketing as has blade, sab(goblin vietnam) and the list goes on.

[Centurian]

Nice flying Luca!!!!

I don't think any of us wish you anything but continued success, myself included. We do seek innovation and value and so far you haven't disappointed us. Not everything you make is for all of us but you have done a great job of bringing items to market that your customers appreciate. You have done an unmatched job in supporting your products and that does not go unnoticed.

I think you take the open discussion of your products a bit personally. Just because I can't justify spending sixty bucks on a 300 motor doesn't mean that there aren't many many people that feel the cost is justified, to each their own.

Keep your chin up and keep the goodies coming. I vote for innovation over bling, but I'm just one of your happy customers. As long as you make the best stuff and support it better than the rest you've got nothing to worry about!!

[rodo1268]

Originally Posted by Centurian

Luca,

I understand you're trying to build a better mousetrap but until it gets to market and proves itself it does appear to be rather pricey. I don't care what color or who's name is on the side of my motor but I do want to feel like I got my money's worth. The 130 eox was a big disappointment to me based on 2 samples, the only 2 brushless motors I ever felt disappointed in. I'm happy with my current 300 motor. Until I see some feedback from non team members I won't be getting my credit card out. I have yet to see anything to convince me I need any of the high end motors for the 300.

Peace.

+1

[Uriah]

A simple explanation like what Furias15x described is all I was asking for. I figured the process was something along those lines, but it was never explained. My current understanding, based on what I've read elsewhere and based on what Furias15x just explained, is a company like Lynx designs a part, finds a manufacturer, submits a CAD design, and then specifies the desired materials / alloys, desired machining tolerances, chemical baths, quality control, etc. They end up with a contract for X number of units per month. I see nothing wrong with that, so long as they aren't stealing designs and specs from any of their competitors.

I just wish Luca (or a competitor) would have been the one to explain "how the process works" rather than Furias15x having to explain it. Regardless, I'm pleased with most of the Lynx parts I've purchased so far. I have probably purchased over $400 in Lynx parts for my fleet in the last 6 months alone, so I have nothing against Lynx and wish Luca the best with his business ventures. I often wear a Lynx T-shirt and cap when I go out to the field (I have two of their shirts and two of their caps).

[vertico]

I ordered the new EOX for my "beater" 300x, really looking forward to it.

I have flown several 130x's with EOX motors (along with other motors)

The EOX performs excellent on the 130x when paired with a GOOD battery.
If you throw any craptastic battery on it, not so well.
Just a friendly reminder for people to not cheap out on your batteries and get the lightest one that you can stand the flight times.

[Centurian]

Originally Posted by vertico

I ordered the new EOX for my "beater" 300x, really looking forward to it.

I have flown several 130x's with EOX motors (along with other motors)

The EOX performs excellent on the 130x when paired with a GOOD battery.
If you throw any craptastic battery on it, not so well.
Just a friendly reminder for people to not cheap out on your batteries and get the lightest one that you can stand the flight times.

while we're off topic.. how would you compare the Spin 8000kv to the eox in the 130?

[terryv83]

So the EOX will work with the stock esc, what about the pinion stock or what lynx one? I'll be ordering one soonish.

[Nelsonisms]

Originally Posted by terryv83

So the EOX will work with the stock esc, what about the pinion stock or what lynx one? I'll be ordering one soonish.

I don't know that I'd personally run it on the stock ESC, but if Luca says it works then I'm not going to argue with that.

The Lynx motor has a 3.17mm shaft so it won't work with the stock pinion which is made for a 2.3mm shaft. Even if it would fit the shaft it is only 9T, so it would be driving a pretty low headspeed (under 3000RPM) at 4100kv. You'll probably want at least a 10T pinion for a very mild setup (if that would even give the motor enough clearance) and higher for a performance setup. Lynx offers slant pinions, but those also require the slant main gear. The smallest Lynx slant pinion for a 3.17mm shaft is 11T. They also have 12T, 13T & 14T.

Mr. Mel's headspeed calculator is a great tool for doing the math to select a pinion.

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by vertico

The EOX performs excellent on the 130x when paired with a GOOD battery.
If you throw any craptastic battery on it, not so well.
Just a friendly reminder for people to not cheap out on your batteries and get the lightest one that you can stand the flight times.

See, that's the thing. Winding a powerful motor is one thing, making it efficient is another. In my mCPx days, people were running more and more powerful motor and at some point it just got ridiculous that even the good Hyperion 550 packs are not powerful enough.

I just came back from testing my HS-2213-2585 motor with 14T setup. This motor is very efficient. Even governed at 3500HS I can finally get below 3.8V after 4:20 of pretty hard flying 1500mAh packs. What's more outstanding is that I can still fly my original 1-yr 160 flight old weak E-Flite battery hard no sign of weakness the entire 4-min flight all the while able to maintain 3500HS and be more powerful than my P2632 could ever be with any battery.

[terryv83]

Originally Posted by Nelsonisms

I don't know that I'd personally run it on the stock ESC, but if Luca says it works then I'm not going to argue with that.

The Lynx motor has a 3.17mm shaft so it won't work with the stock pinion which is made for a 2.3mm shaft. Even if it would fit the shaft it is only 9T, so it would be driving a pretty low headspeed (under 3000RPM) at 4100kv. You'll probably want at least a 10T pinion for a very mild setup (if that would even give the motor enough clearance) and higher for a performance setup. Lynx offers slant pinions, but those also require the slant main gear. The smallest Lynx slant pinion for a 3.17mm shaft is 11T. They also have 12T, 13T & 14T.

Mr. Mel's headspeed calculator is a great tool for doing the math to select a pinion.

I thought getting the slant gear/ OWB would be a good idea also. Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

[vertico]

Originally Posted by Centurian

while we're off topic.. how would you compare the Spin 8000kv to the eox in the 130?

I have not flown the Spin 8000kv, how do you rate it to the EOX?

i'm also interested to know how you would compare the crash damage to the EOX, HP08 & HP10. I ask this because I had the HP10 on mine for a week and it was super powerful however any crash and it just demolished parts. I found the HP08 bogged easily and found a happy medium in the EOX.

[Centurian]

Originally Posted by vertico

I have not flown the Spin 8000kv, how do you rate it to the EOX?

i'm also interested to know how you would compare the crash damage to the EOX, HP08 & HP10. I ask this because I had the HP10 on mine for a week and it was super powerful however any crash and it just demolished parts. I found the HP08 bogged easily and found a happy medium in the EOX.

My first EOX I'd say was a hp08 equivalent, not impressed especially for the money. Bitched a bit, lynx sent a replacement, it smoked on 1st pack. I swapped the original for a spin. 2nd replacement was swapped to a friend NIB. I only have one HP08 and maybe it's exceptional. I love the spin 8k, I don't seem to have much issue with massive crash damage but the only really bad 130 crashes I've suffered have been due to mech fails. Gearing was a bit of an issue(due to can diameter) if you don't like big headspeed but that's been solved by the redbull main gear(I use the RB gear on my 150). Haven't flown the 130's much of late but the spin is vastly superior for my style to the EOX at lower cost.

For the life of me, I can't understand why my experience seems so different that most of what I read on HF. I chalk it up to marketing but who knows.

[vertico]

Originally Posted by Centurian

My first EOX I'd say was a hp08 equivalent, not impressed especially for the money. Bitched a bit, lynx sent a replacement, it smoked on 1st pack. I swapped the original for a spin. 2nd replacement was swapped to a friend NIB. I only have one HP08 and maybe it's exceptional. I love the spin 8k, I don't seem to have much issue with massive crash damage but the only really bad 130 crashes I've suffered have been due to mech fails. Gearing was a bit of an issue(due to can diameter) if you don't like big headspeed but that's been solved by the redbull main gear(I use the RB gear on my 150). Haven't flown the 130's much of late but the spin is vastly superior for my style to the EOX at lower cost.

For the life of me, I can't understand why my experience seems so different that most of what I read on HF. I chalk it up to marketing but who knows.

Interesting, I haven't been using my micros much either however at some point i'll pick up a Spin 8k and give it a shot.

Regarding the EOX 300x motor, i'm going to really put this thing to the test. My 300x has replaced my 130x as my "Street Fighter", that is the heli I fly in front of my house. I promise I will slam it into the concrete a few time. Will see how it holds up and will let everyone know how it performs.

[jaybyrd]

Off topic again, and not to cause a big fuss.

But your inadequate first EOX 1101 motor was strong enough to push 4x full size Lynx 135mm blades at 100% throttle with the Red Bull head. This was on my ultralight 130x.

With the regular 2 rotor setup on the same ultralight 130x using stock batteries with the blue shrink wrap removed was just crazy intense and really too much for me to handle. That level of performance is very possible from the motor! I can assuredly say the Lynx EOX 1101 is the best motor to use with stock batteries! Power wise, there is always something bigger. 3S EOX 1102?

So either you carry around a bunch of junk in yer trunk/aka bling or you are doing something wrong! (Respectfully)

Maybe your expectations are too high? I didn't like how the spin 8k drained even a 500 Hyperion with a 10T pinion in the couple flights with a waggy ds35 tail servo, so you must have got some super spin 8000 motor or hp08?


Regarding the whole copying designs and parts issue, I'm pretty sure Luca goes out of his way to design unique parts to fill a need, he has integrity to spare and it shows. I'm pretty sure it's other companies that copy his ideas. About his business model etc, that's not something I would expect anybody to share openly on a public forum. I would say Luca is just as frustrated and annoyed at other companies copying his work and doesn't know how to explain it. The thing is to watch who has the original ideas first and whose second. Lynx is making parts that nobody else even thinks of, carbon fiber torque tube for 130x as an example. Or 3rd bearing boom, now copied, etc!

Lynx has made an original trex 150 swash plate with a replaceable center bushing, so now that's it's out, well see who copies who!