Theory: Avoid using Red Backed, 3M Exterior Double Sided Tape on Gyro, elec

[rob-atl]

Just a heads up:

ckoelliker and I have both experienced Dramatic gyro problems when we used this red-release-tape covered 3M exterior double sided tape on the trex 500's plastic tail block. The actual double sided tape is a darkish grey.

My heli was un-fly-able with this tape (is that a word?)
Replace with 3M WHITE "heavy duty" foam double sided tape & all is perferct.

My case: gy 401 w/ 9650; constant tail jerking & inability of HH mode to work at all.
Change tape & all's perfect (more flights will confirm, but this tape looks like it causes problems on this heli for at least 2 of us).

This tape worked on my metal tail blocked 450SE, and on the 600 with a Logitech 6100, but NOT on this 500!

[Stuka]

Was this with one layer or two? I use two layers and I've never had a problem. I don't have a 500 though.

[rob-atl]

One layer.
I'm not sure which one is conductive, or what causes the issue.
Maybe 1 layer of that is too stiff?
I also wondered if part of the problem could be vibration/ resonant frequencies confusing the gyro??

[Finless]

Not a theory! I replied in your other post. That stuff is NOT FOAM and thus provides NO vibration dampening at all! Heck one day I was out of 3M white foamy stuff and even tried stacking 4 pieces of that stuff... still kicks and wags!

NOT GOOD for a gyro but it is pretty good for mounting other stuff.

Bob

[WayneBrown]

I've been using the same tape for several years, without issue.
Of course I triple a length of tape for 3 layers.
I'd suspect something else as the root of the problem..

[Trooper Sam]

So we're saying that this apparent problem is only on the 500, right? I've been using this tape on my 600 electric for quite a while without incident.

Actually, Finless turned me on to this stuff.

[Finless]

Not for the gyro Sam! I turned you on to this stuff but pretty sure we used the white stuff when working on your tail problem!

Bob

[WayneBrown]

All 7 guys at my field are using the SAME stuff, without issues.
I've used it myself on several choppers and MANY rebuilds/ tail gear replacements on the 600N's. Why would this suddenly become a "Don't use this" issue?
I'm calling this one.

[ckoelliker]

Well I was the one that said he may want to switch the tape. I have been using the red backed 3m on all of my helicopters without any problems, but a while back I had some glitching on my 450. I sort of came out of nowhere. I switched gyros, servos, etc. Eventually I switched the tape and that fixed. When I was building my 500, I put the same red backed tape. My first few flights were real glitchy. I moved the gyro and receiver with no change. I switched the tape and all was well. I even switched it back and sure enough it started to glitch. Once again I have used this tape on my 450's, all three of my nitros without any problems. I don't know if it is the weather or what. All I know is that it fixed two problems. I can't see static being a problem on the south Georgia coast, but who knows. Anyway I know a lot of people use the red backed tape, Hell I think it was Barracuda Hockey who recommended the tape to me in the first place. Either way if you are using it and having problems, you might want to give another type a try even if you have had success with it on other helicopters.

[lowflyer101]

i used 4 layer of servo tape, work for me. servo tape is all have around

[duceduc]

I was having the same issue with the red tape and the foam aswell. Not on all my heli I must say. The red seems to have more issues.

[rob-atl]

I think this might be a vibration or resonance issue we are seeing with ONE layer of the red backed tape, on THIS one heli, with SOME gyros.

I worked for years in the rubber industry, and rubbers & foams can have radically different responses under load. "rebound" "dampending" "hardness" "modulus of elasticity" etc. vary accross very wide spectrums.
What does the gyro like best?

I think the red back tape may be more elastic & less dampening than typical FOAM tapes.

But the change made a big difference for some of us. We don't know why (I changed like 10 things everyone suggested after NEVER having a gyro problem EVER on my 450 & 600). And NOTHING worked on the 500 except the tape. I grounded, relocated, rewired, sprayed, triple lubricated, etc.

Futaba has QUICK set-up Guidelines for the 401, and their #1 ISSUE out of TWENTY is about the TAPE thinkness/ sponginess. I suspect the gyro can be sensitive to the tape you use, or they wouldn't put it #1.

http://www.futaba-rc.com/team/team-tip-002.html

.......(long paragraph before this list)
Step by step set up:

1. Mount the gyro using either the supplied tape or a single layer of high quality 1/8 inch servo tape. Multiple layers of tape are unnecessary and potentially detrimental to gyro performance if the mounting becomes excessively "spongy".


2. On most helicopters, a servo wheel with ball joint mounting radius of 12.5-14mm is a good starting point. A wheel with a hole drilled for the ball joint is preferred over a "star" arm because of greater rigidity.


3. The helicopter model and engine must be running smoothly. No gyro will perform correctly if the model is vibrating or the engine is incorrectly tuned.


4. Confirm that no subtrim or ATV is present in the transmitter in any flight condition on the rudder channel. This point is critical. For the time being, keep the rudder AFR or D/R's at 100%, as well.

[Trooper Sam]

Originally Posted by Finless

Not for the gyro Sam! I turned you on to this stuff but pretty sure we used the white stuff when working on your tail problem!

Bob

Oh, no...we went right to the gray stuff, as the Futaba tape was suspected by some as being too flexible at the time we were hunting in vain for the tail problem. And it's been working just fine, never an issue. I just replaced it with the exact same gray tape when I upgraded the tail to torque tube. Still completely issue free.

[WillJames]

I had to switch from the gray to the white tape on my last MA Stratus due to hunting tail. Eric Larson is who suggested I try the different tape, and he was right, change tape, no more hunting.

So... not just the 500 I don't think. I prefer gyro tape that works all the time, I am out of the 3M Gray and only use the Clear and the White now. No more issues.

[rob-atl]

I think temperature is likely part of the issue too.
I was seeing the problem with 20 & 30 degree weather.

When the white foam solved my problem, I was reminded of the space shuttle's rubber o ring seals that didn't work with vibration at cold temperatures.

If what you have works, GREAT. But if it doesn't, and it's cold, or one layer of gray rubbery stuff, this could be it.

I think the white is much more foam (air) and would do better in cold temps.