stunt flying tip needed.

[HeliKhorazy]

Hi guys,

I've got one quick question, i'm pretty comfortable flying inverted now and i was Wondering, what general area should my throttle be when performing tick tocks? Mid stick? Im curious cuz its not quite inverted and not quite upright.

And i'm trying on A 130x don't have A sim as of yet or id just practice on that.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by HeliKhorazy

Hi guys,

I've got one quick question, i'm pretty comfortable flying inverted now and i was Wondering, what general area should my throttle be when performing tick tocks? Mid stick? Im curious cuz its not quite inverted and not quite upright.

And i'm trying on A 130x don't have A sim as of yet or id just practice on that.

Throttle percentage, or throttle stick?

Tic-tocs will be idle-up, so throttle stick will pass though middle (I assume you are using a linear pitch curve with centre being 0 pitch).

Throttle percentage should be on the high end (80%+). Flat or V throttle curve is your choice. Tic-tocs are hard on motors and batteries so expect shortened flight times (and give you 130x time to cool between tic-toc attempt flights).

Beware, tic-tocs go wrong FAST. If you hit the wrong collective at one point it will accelerate your 130x toward (or into) the ground. Give yourself room for mistakes when learning.

[HeliKhorazy]

Thank you, and yes i am using a linear pitch curve and meant stick, I think i might just wait to get a sim before i start practicing tic tocs as i am very weary of Them.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by HeliKhorazy

... I think i might just wait to get a sim before i start practicing tic tocs as i am very weary of Them.

I think you meant wary as in cautious, not weary as in tired.

Yes, HIGHLY recommend sim before flying these IRL.

Good luck.

[HeliKhorazy]

Yes i did, thank you for the correction. I'm sure it Will save me Some money in the long Run.

[Gladius]

That's funny. I thought he meant to say LEARY of them. Same meaning, different word!

[TheVortex3d]

Start with half flips. From a tail in hover, pull back on the elevator and flip it to nose in inverted. Then up elevator back to tail in upright. Get good at that first, then try to catch it a 45 degree angle. Don't worry about stick positions, just focus on what's happening with the heli.

[FailureToFly]

Get a sim as you'll never learn to tic toc well without it. Tic tocs are harder than pro style piro flips IMHO.

In regards to throttle; when learning you need a lot of throttle (lots of HS basically and a decent 3D setup so it doesn't bog too much) and collective (you pretty much go from a lot to max all of the time). You want to pivot at the tail case and not half way up the heli as it ends up being very jerky and unlike a clock.

Jerky method = lots of cyclic
Tail pivot = lots of collective

Tic tocs require great collective management to look good and the ability to make loads of little adjustments whilst in the middle of part flips/rolls quickly changing direction.

[suthae]

Originally Posted by FailureToFly

Jerky method = lots of cyclic
Tail pivot = lots of collective

Shouldnt it be the opposite?

[Russell Harding]

Nope.

Think of it this way:

Side in, pivoting on the tail case, the actual bank angle of the heli changed less than if you are pivoting around a point midway up the boom.

You won't be able to tic toc as rapidly though, generally.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by FailureToFly

....
Jerky method = lots of cyclic
Tail pivot = lots of collective
....

Originally Posted by suthae

Shouldnt it be the opposite?

I've seen FailureToFly do LOTS of tic-tocs (tail-down, nose down, four point, etc..). He knows what he is talking about.

I agree with the Code3Medic description.

It's quite a balancing act between collective (lots), cyclic (some to change side and less to correct for side-side movement) and rudder (to help keep the heli in position).

The biggest issue I find with tic-tocs (and mine are REALLY, REALLY bad). is that if you zig when you should zag, as you are often near full collective, things go to hell VERY fast. This is why sim and height are so important when learning this.

[gitbse]

Originally Posted by FailureToFly

Tic tocs are harder than pro style piro flips IMHO.

Not to sure about that though... However he did drop the IMHO.... so I'll leave it alone.

Tighter tic tocs, and better looking tic tocs however use less collective.

The detailed version of how to control them in flight is quite lengthy, and fairly hard to describe without a visual.

[FailureToFly]

I don't mean tail down tic tocs naturally!

I mean 'tic tocs' are harder than double piro flips.

4 point, 8 point, big bens, quarter/half/full piro tic tocs etc

I regularly see good double piro flips but not often do I see great tic tocs. I think that says something about the move. F3N rules rate a 4 point tic toc higher than a double piro flip for example.

Originally Posted by gitbse

Not to sure about that though... However he did drop the IMHO.... so I'll leave it alone.

Tighter tic tocs, and better looking tic tocs however use less collective.

The detailed version of how to control them in flight is quite lengthy, and fairly hard to describe without a visual.

[gitbse]

Originally Posted by FailureToFly

I don't mean tail down tic tocs naturally!

I mean 'tic tocs' are harder than double piro flips.

4 point, 8 point, big bens, quarter/half/full piro tic tocs etc

I regularly see good double piro flips but not often do I see great tic tocs. I think that says something about the move. F3N rules rate a 4 point tic toc higher than a double piro flip for example.

Good point.

[jmtyndall]

Im trying to learn 4 points right now. Very difficult. Deceptively so. If you watch the sticks or ask how to do it, its just cyclic and collective and timing. Learning the timing is hard at first, but its actually the easiest part of the move. Making corrections is very difficult because only very small inputs are needed. Learning to do fast, tight tic tocs in place is very hard. I spend about 5 minutes a week just trying to hold each orientation without drifting or getting "out of the pocket" to use a musicians term