When did inverted hovering "click" for you?

[senji]

As with most people, my sim skills are a little more advanced than my real life flying skills.. IRL, I'll only go inverted when I reach the top of a loop, or when doing a roll. In the sim, Ive been practicing inverted hover for awhile. A lonnggg while. And I still keep on turning the tail the opposite way, as well as fwd/back cyclic. L/R cyclic is fine for some reason. Cant seem to stay inverted for longer than 5 seconds.. Im starting to think I'll never get it.

Has anyone ever experienced this, but suddenly it just "clicked" for you? Im hoping for it, but I think Im slowly telling myself to just abandon it.

[Cheetah62]

Keep practicing, it will click.
Work your hovering orientations on the sim, starting with whatever (nose-in, nose-out) inverted orientation you are best at. Then work on the others.
There are some mental checks I make regarding stick coordination when I'm starting into a maneuver that I don't have good muscle memory for, and inverted was one of those areas. For me it's a matter of remembering the stick coordination that is associated with a particular orientation or maneuver. As I enter that orientation or maneuver I remind myself "crossed sticks" or "opposite aileron" or whatever.
For me inverted nose-in is most comfortable, maybe because I can "push" and "pull" the helicopter away and towards me as I would in an upright nose-out hover, which makes me feel comfortable from a safety standpoint. The reversal of aileron is relatively easy to learn, and you can quickly reverse an incorrect stick input without endangering yourself. Learning nose-out inverted is harder, since you have to reverse elevator (nose-up, nose-down). But then aileron is normal, so roll control is easy.
These are the types of things I mentally "check" before beginning a new orientation.
Eventually it does become automatic, but you have to put in the time.

[deca]

Imagining myself leaning back has helped me actually. While on the sim try holding your transmitter upside down, sticks pointing at the floor. You probably don't want to do that at the field but maybe it'll help you start developing the muscle memory.

[povern]

After about $300 on my 450.

[LL-Cool-T]

"Come here"..."Go Away"...thats when it clicked for me...for nose-in inverted if i wanted the helicopter to "come" to me, i pulled the stick in my direction...if I wanted it to "go away" from me I "pushed" the stick away from me...i still hear it in my mind when Im nose-in inverted...that was the easiest way for things to "click" for me. now I can fly inverted almost as good as right side up.

[gehrbox]

Originally Posted by senji

As with most people, my sim skills are a little more advanced than my real life flying skills.. IRL, I'll only go inverted when I reach the top of a loop, or when doing a roll. In the sim, Ive been practicing inverted hover for awhile. A lonnggg while. And I still keep on turning the tail the opposite way, as well as fwd/back cyclic. L/R cyclic is fine for some reason. Cant seem to stay inverted for longer than 5 seconds.. Im starting to think I'll never get it.

Has anyone ever experienced this, but suddenly it just "clicked" for you? Im hoping for it, but I think Im slowly telling myself to just abandon it.

Yup. Keep practicing, it will click one day. I'm not cutting grass, but am comfortable nose in, tail in and sideways about 15' up and can hold it there as long as I would like. I've been at it for about 3 months. 30 minutes of sim time a day and real life flight on weekends.

Set realistic expectations for yourself. Flip inverted. Work on getting it stable. Once stable, bail out and repeat. Learn one orientation at a time. This will build confidence with transition to inverted. Start extending the inverted time before bailing.

Practice on the sim daily. When you are comfortable with a sim inverted, increase the difficulty with a less stable heli or increase headspeed or reduce expo. This will build your skills and muscle memory for quick reactions. My sim routine currently is 10 minutes nose in hover, followed by 10 min of tail in hover then 5 minutes upright nose in and 5 minutes of freestyle. During the inverted hover sim practice I hold the heli very close and work on keeping it planted in the same place. If it wonders out of position I drive it back, I don't bail.

Start high and work your way down as your skills and confidence build.

[sephroth]

It took me about 3 months of training to get comfortable with inverted hovering. One night I was laying in bed thinking about it and it just clicked. Since then I'm pretty good at all orientations. Seems easier for me in real life than in the sim.

For some reason I do prefer nose in inverted.

Sent from my Galaxy Note via Tapatalk

[Sambuka]

It clicked for me after about 3 days, 15+ hours on the sim just hovering inverted in all directions. Its very frustrating going inverted, its like "ohhhh come on you mean I have to learn how to HOVER again!!!". Then it was just sit there for hour after hour waiting for the fingers to learn the movements. I just stayed with nose in inverted till I got that feeling tight and controled, then used that as the safety net like Tail in is to hovering. Then did side in either way on the sim one side just sticking left side in hovering for 1 hour, tiny little taps to corect back and forth. Then switch to the right side for 1 hour. Brain was fried after a few hours, goto sleep wake up and after some sleep the hands learn a lot of what you did the day before. Its all stick time, and dont' chase the heli make sure its little movements so your fingers learn the correct movements. And yes its just like Nose in, it CLICKS. And it will keep at it.

[senji]

Wow, there's quite a range of learning time for everyone it seems. 3 days, to 3 months.. Im at 9 months total, with about last 3 months of those really trying to focus on it. So much so, I accidentally pushed down collective while nose in upright hover a couple of times.. Its like I have to keep maintenence on upright hovering so I dont mess that up by learning inverted. I really like the "push and pull" method while nose in, it really works! I tried that after reading some of your replies. It seems to have been working better. But the darn tail, I'm still nudging it the wrong way before pulling it the correct direction.

With the raptor, I was succesful for about 10 seconds the other day. And it was WAY high, like the size of an mcpx 30 feet away. Im getting the cyclic somewhat correct but the tail Im still dumb thumbing it.

Im going to make sure inverted practice comprises of at least 1/3 of my sim time practice.. For some reason my brain isn't accepting it too easily.

Thanks for all the replies.

[newhelliguy]

For tail control look at the nose instead of the tail when nose in.
Just look at the part closest to you and it will move same direction as stick

for elevator control look at the tail as if it is the nose when inverted.
Just push forward on elevator and tail goes down. Pull back tail goes up.
Same as the nose reacts when upright.

Ailerons are the same upright and inverted. for side in moving stick toward nose always moves heli toward you, stick toward tail moves heli away from you.


These helped me the most, along with a mCPx to learn them on cheaply.

Try these on the sim.

[Sambuka]

Yeah I gotta say after doing inverted hover training and then working on forward inverted flight on the sim/mcpx for 2-3 weeks solid the next time I flew my 500 I inverted it took it 2 feet off the ground felt 100% safe and in control cause all I focused on in the sim was inverted and nothing but inverted. I infact did so much my nose in upright flight confidence went down I felt better flipping it inverted to bring it back close to me when I went to far out. You do lose some upright control when you focus to much on inverted but it comes back super fast I just did sim upright for a few hours doing loops rolls and then both were pretty good after that.

+1 Mcpx is the best trainer you really get to fly inverted and learn loops rolls and crashes on the cheap.

[gehrbox]

Originally Posted by Sambuka

Yeah I gotta say after doing inverted hover training and then working on forward inverted flight on the sim/mcpx for 2-3 weeks solid the next time I flew my 500 I inverted it took it 2 feet off the ground felt 100% safe and in control cause all I focused on in the sim was inverted and nothing but inverted. I infact did so much my nose in upright flight confidence went down I felt better flipping it inverted to bring it back close to me when I went to far out. You do lose some upright control when you focus to much on inverted but it comes back super fast I just did sim upright for a few hours doing loops rolls and then both were pretty good after that.

+1 Mcpx is the best trainer you really get to fly inverted and learn loops rolls and crashes on the cheap.

Ya I discovered the same thing. You have to balance sim time between new maneuvers and those already known.

[dannylightning]

After a load of practice on the Sim provavly about 20_30 hours worth on the Sim and I was doing it descent on the real thing

Sent from my little tablet, spelling may be much worse than usual.

[SynergyAero]

My $0.02:

What has always worked for me, is I try to visualize myself behind the heli (or R/C car or plane in my younger years). Once this method gets me to the point where I am familiar with the orientation, I dont really even think about it any more... it just becomes natural at that point.

For example, first time I hovered side in (it was pointing left), I actually faced my body slightly to the left and even turned my head slightly left, while still maintaining eye contact with the heli. This way, in my mind I was flying from behind the tail, where I was most comfortable.

For example, when we first start hovering, its hard for left aileron to mean anything but absolute left (not relative to the heli's orientation). But when I would stand slightly facing left, my orientation matched the heicopter's. Now, left aileron would directly translate to "left" in relation to the helicopter. And when inputting that left aileron, I would now expect the heli to move back towards me. Does this make any sense?

After a number of flights, I eventually stopped turning my head. And after a few more, I stopped turning my body, and just visualized myself (in my mind) being behind the heli as I looked at it.

Finally, it just became natural.

When I got to the nose-in, inverted hover, I would (and still do to some small degree) imagine myself upside down facing backwards just like the heli, then all the controls seemed normal to me.

In my mind, Im basically always behind the helicopter, and the controls are (almost!) always normal to me. This probably sounds like some wacky out-of-body metaphysical stuff. But my dad taught me this some 30 years ago (airplanes), and it has always worked for me!

I hope someone else finds this useful

Cris

[robbancs]

Don't you get dizzy?

[LL-Cool-T]

Practice practice practice. On the sim. Until its muscle memory. There's nothing else. No secrets or gimmicks. It's all a matter of practice. It'll click. But u have to practice. Then practice some more. Then eat. Then go to work. Then practice. Then eat. Then repeat.

[Stevin]

It finally started making sense to me after doing forward flips with a stock mcpx for about a month, finally I just stopped the heli and held the position in the middle of the flip. Slowly I was able to keep it in one place.

[Wiebe_nl]

I switched from FB to FBL. This helps me al lot. I use the elevator backward flip to go inverted. With the FBL unit it's so much easier to ' trust' yourself and the helicopter.

[SynergyAero]

Originally Posted by robbancs

Don't you get dizzy?

LOL

[PassinThru]

Originally Posted by newhelliguy

For tail control look at the nose instead of the tail when nose in.
Just look at the part closest to you and it will move same direction as stick

for elevator control look at the tail as if it is the nose when inverted.
Just push forward on elevator and tail goes down. Pull back tail goes up.
Same as the nose reacts when upright.

Ailerons are the same upright and inverted. for side in moving stick toward nose always moves heli toward you, stick toward tail moves heli away from you.


These helped me the most, along with a mCPx to learn them on cheaply.

Try these on the sim.

I'm finding these are very helpful observations when trying them on my sim.

Also appreciate all the other comments on this thread, though I'm afraid of personal injury resulting from trying SynergyAero's tips. Maybe I'll buy some Gaui stock first....