trying From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months

[Himilou]

So I've been flying for about a year and had a blast so far. I've also stuffed many helis in the dirt and after a small break from this hobby ( insanity ) Im back though still fearful of a lot of things. I've practiced slow piros before but never with a real plan behind it.
I read this From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months and I figure I'll give it a shot and post my progress here in this thread, hopefully to help inspire others and myself.Day One:

I thought the first lessons would be pretty easy, after all I have some time under my belt and I've practiced these before.
Wrong! First thing is is that by setting the rudder ( I have real flight ) to force the heli to piro things just got a lot harder! I ground it out using the training circle and we will see.
Crash count: to many to list!

[blade450]

This should be interesting....I will follow this.

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[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Himilou

...
I read this From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months and I figure I'll give it a shot and post my progress here in this thread, hopefully to help inspire others and myself.Day One:

I thought the first lessons would be pretty easy, after all I have some time under my belt and I've practiced these before.
Wrong! First thing is is that by setting the rudder ( I have real flight ) to force the heli to piro things just got a lot harder! I ground it out using the training circle and we will see.
Crash count: to many to list!

I for one will be watching with interest. Please tell us how you go.

After all, "how hard can it be?" (Just wait till you get to inverted )

I hope you get as much out of following it as I did experiencing and compiling it from my experience. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Good luck and happy flying.

[RogerRabit]

I too will watch your progress

Have fun!

[Kaolith]

I'm learning using this method too, I'll love to see how you do. Much harder than it sounds until you get the hang of it. Its fun yet challenging.

Real flight is good for the training. Downside is you cant slow it down, but then you also learn faster. What heli are you using?

Kaolith

[Himilou]

at the moment just the trainer that realflight gives you when you switch to hover training. Outside if that the x5 or the kde 700 are nice.
wher I really think this training is going to pay off is in learning piro flips. While I can somewhat fly inverted its really more the heli flying me at this point. Thus when I flip to inverted I'm really all over the place and this has prevented me from getting anywhere with the nick Maxwell method, once I flip I'm too out of control to piro the 90 to flip again.

[Kaolith]

Originally Posted by Himilou

at the moment just the trainer that realflight gives you when you switch to hover training. Outside if that the x5 or the kde 700 are nice.
wher I really think this training is going to pay off is in learning piro flips. While I can somewhat fly inverted its really more the heli flying me at this point. Thus when I flip to inverted I'm really all over the place and this has prevented me from getting anywhere with the nick Maxwell method, once I flip I'm too out of control to piro the 90 to flip again.

In the trainer I use the Gaui X7, and use that outside too. I have started inverted yet. Tried flips and flat 8s and they are all sucky. I either lose sight or the heli moves too fast to control...

[hkubota]

Originally Posted by Kaolith

Real flight is good for the training. Downside is you cant slow it down, but then you also learn faster.

Yes you can slow it down. At least on the current RF 6.5. Flies like flying under water :p

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[Steve Graham]

Good Luck,

Some peoples competitive nature makes them want to put a time frame on their progress. I think we all do that to one degree or another at some point. I would caution you that this can set you up for disappointment if you let the time frame be the focus. I will always be impressed at the speed with which some people progress. It makes me happy to see others enjoying this great hobby. What I've discovered is that by setting goals without time frames attached it focuses my practice and at the same time takes the pressure off and allows me to enjoy the process of skill progression.

FWIW

[Himilou]

Im not worried about the 6 month part of things, actually I think that I'll be ahead of schedule. What I like about this is that it gives you a training regimen and a progression guide, and I hope that ArchMageAU knows a little about teaching yourself muscle memory which is what this is really about.
Like playing guitar its fun to screw around and make noise etc. But what really really makes you improve are those painful times when you sit down and practice scales up and down and up and down and ....

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Himilou

.... and I hope that ArchMageAU knows a little about teaching yourself muscle memory which is what this is really about....

I do not have formal qualifications in training muscle memory, but after many years of competing ice figure skating (state and national level), I hope I have learnt a thing or two (and also about mental training). I applied the same principals used in figure skating for flying.

Flying, like skating (being fine tuned motor skill based on feedback), will have various rates o progression. Some progress fast, some slower. What is consistent is that the height of competence on the complex stuff depends on the depth of skill in the basics. For example, I have seen figure skaters that can do all their double jumps, but could not skate between the elements to same themselves. They faired poorly in competition and had difficulty learning other new moves because of the poor quality of their basic skating skills.

Essentially, work on the basics and the advanced stuff becomes easier.

The training regime was developed in conjunction with my skating experience and advanced memory training. With advanced memory training, short sessions, with gaps and frequent repetition are the key. I have found this worked well for me and seen it work well for others.

The last note was the recording of progress. It is easy to get discouraged and forget how far you have come. The progress record allows you to see, at a glance, how far you have come in the last week or month. It is all to easy to "emotionally" forget how far you have come and abandon just when you are about to see the biggest gains. Also shows your "sticking points" so you can get help or support to get over them.

Best of luck to you both (Kaolith and Himilou). Just heed the Steve Graham warning. Do not be discourage if it takes you longer than you anticipate to get to a level you are happy with. Keep a record and refer to it. With consistent practice, I am sure you will see results.

[Steve Graham]

+1

This is what I've observed as well in full scale flight training.

[Himilou]

Two really cool things happened with this today.

First was this is the first 15 minute session where I had less than 4 crashes.
Second was even better. This is hard to explain but the heli was near the edge of the circle and it was becoming one of those heli flying me over correcting situations.
Well the brain was saying heli control like this heli control like this BUT the thumb did the opposite and the thumb was right!!

I think thats a good sign ( or maybe its a bad one )

Ohh and I already hate you in advance for the inverted stuff which I've have attempted twice

BTW heres my spreadsheet so everyone can make sure I keep up on my homework!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&usp=sharing

[Kaolith]

Great job Himilou! I did pretty good in my sessions too. I've been getting 0 crashes for a while so I manned up and did lesson 4. I hated it. I had over 50 crashes . But back at it with at least two sessions with both orientations planned tomorrow. Keep posting progress and I'll start linking my spreadsheet too!

[Himilou]

I can already tell that the thing that is going to limit my lesson 4 crash count will be how long it takes me to hit reset

[ArchmageAU]

Firstly, from what you report, you are both (Kaolith and Himilou) doing well. Keep it up.

Originally Posted by Kaolith

Great job Himilou! I did pretty good in my sessions too. I've been getting 0 crashes for a while so I manned up and did lesson 4. I hated it. I had over 50 crashes . But back at it with at least two sessions with both orientations planned tomorrow. Keep posting progress and I'll start linking my spreadsheet too!

I warned you would hate me

Originally Posted by Himilou

I can already tell that the thing that is going to limit my lesson 4 crash count will be how long it takes me to hit reset

One thing that may help to get results with lesson 4 is start sessions without rotation. First at nose-in or tail-in. (This if slow-time is not an option). Then once down to less than 10 crashes in 15mins, try interchange sessions with opposite tail (tail-in or nose-in), then side-on (either), then rotation.

By "sneaking up" on inverted orientations, it will seem less of a "mission impossible" in the early stages.

Remember it took me just over a month to get full speed inverted crashless and this was 2-4 sessions a day, EVERY day. (Got through a lot of audio books ). Your speed may vary. The emphasis is that it will not be overnight. This is not a race. These skills will serve you for years of flying to come. Best thing are earned, not gifted.

[hkubota]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

(Got through a lot of audio books )

When I read that you listed to audio books while doing hover training, I though "How does he even understand what is being read? His brain should concentrate on the heli!"

Turns out that listening is totally fine . Big surprise to me. I listen to web radio and follow the news without missing a sentence.

Why this is so important? Because 15min hovering is a looong time. Boring as heck if you listen to the sim heli sound. So anyone who is bored: turn on some interesting music, radio or possibly audio books! Your brain can handle it. And it makes hover traning so much less boring.

[Bee_random]

Hi Guys,
I've been watching this thread (and it's parent) with interest. Mind if I join?

By chance, I've been working on my own structured approach to accelerated learning. I'm reading various books on the subject of learning. In particular, I'm currently reading 'Bounce' by Mathew Syed - some may be familiar with this? It looks at what it takes to be an expert in competition.

My immediate goal is inverted flight. Having learnt upright forward & backward flight I know how the different steps of the learning curve feel for me and I'm now part way through concious-competence at inverted forward flight (on the sim!). I have a (zero value) side-bet with a friend that I can get this before he can do upright figure 8's. He's very close, so I've got my work cut out for me . It's all good fun, but motivating which is the first ingredient.

I've set my timer for 10min countdown and focus on one thing at a time. Mostly figure 8's and transitions... going from 10mins of inverted to flyig upright is still a major challenge! With a really basic star chart, I am begining to plot my progress.

So today I learnt how spending time on the simulator isn't enough . To progress the time must be spent concentrating on perfection, working on the things that are proving extremely hard. I had spent many sessions going around and around inverted (with more than a few crashes). And I guess this was necessary to get the basic movement into my thumbs. But now that I am focussed on getting a constant height and turning circle I can feel the difference. And the best part is that it no longer matters how many times I crash, because not crashing isn't really the point.

Now to start in real life!
Good luck to all, B

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Bee_random

Hi Guys,
I've been watching this thread (and it's parent) with interest. Mind if I join?

As far as I am concerned, "the more the merrier".

Originally Posted by Bee_random

By chance, I've been working on my own structured approach to accelerated learning. I'm reading various books on the subject of learning. In particular, I'm currently reading 'Bounce' by Mathew Syed - some may be familiar with this? It looks at what it takes to be an expert in competition.
....
So today I learnt how spending time on the simulator isn't enough . To progress the time must be spent concentrating on perfection, working on the things that are proving extremely hard. I had spent many sessions going around and around inverted (with more than a few crashes). And I guess this was necessary to get the basic movement into my thumbs. But now that I am focussed on getting a constant height and turning circle I can feel the difference. And the best part is that it no longer matters how many times I crash, because not crashing isn't really the point.

Now to start in real life!

I have not read this book, but from the review http://www.experttabletennis.com/bou...-matthew-syed/ it looks like it is quite relevant. (especially that ".. it is the quantity and quality of practice that leads of elite performance.")

Once you can do what you want in the sim (100% of the time), at height, and have well practiced bail-outs (and know when to use them), THEN it is time to start IRL. It is part of building the confidence (that belief in yourself) so that nothing surprises you (and you do not fall back to a "choke" reflex where the brain locks up).

Originally Posted by Bee_random

My immediate goal is inverted flight. Having learnt upright forward & backward flight I know how the different steps of the learning curve feel for me and I'm now part way through concious-competence at inverted forward flight (on the sim!). I have a (zero value) side-bet with a friend that I can get this before he can do upright figure 8's. He's very close, so I've got my work cut out for me . It's all good fun, but motivating which is the first ingredient.

I've set my timer for 10min countdown and focus on one thing at a time. Mostly figure 8's and transitions... going from 10mins of inverted to flyig upright is still a major challenge! With a really basic star chart, I am begining to plot my progress.

I take it your upright and inverted orientations are near 100% then. I find with inverted circuits, as long as you can stop, gain height, level and bring it back, you should progress on these very quickly. This is why practice bail-out. You can keep trying knowing that you are never really risking the heli (except from mechanical failure). 3 mistakes high.

8's are better if circles are good. Then it's just a case of joining the circles. If one circle is poor, stay in that circle a few times longer, then go back to the 8 pattern. I find I progress faster by working on my weaknesses, not just play with your strengths.

Originally Posted by Bee_random

Good luck to all, B

And to you too. ( "kick his ass " )

Remember, short focused sessions, breaks in between, plot progress and play time to keep it fun.

[Kaolith]

Did two sessions today, one upright, the other inverted. I have to work on keeping the heli on its axis when upright (Harder than it sounds). I definitely need more inverted practice, had 39 crashes But back at it tomorrow!

My spreadsheet -https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=0&output=html