APM 2.5

[jolyboy]

Nah I got the one like the collar on the main shaft..

How did you get the shaft off your motor? Mine is too tight like there is still a grub screw in.

EDIT: Never mind, I got it.. took a bit of strength! Twisted the old shaft in half at the circlip groove!

[salience]

OK then, for next time (there's always a next time!) Take a socket that fits over the shaft but supports the motor case as close to the shaft as possible. Set the motor on the socket on your drill press table, shaft going out through one of the slots/holes in the table. Put a slightly smaller shaft in the chuck. Plenty of force available to push out the shaft, you can even tap it. Minimises risk you will distort the motor case.

Also next time - like when you bend a shaft and need to remove it, when you remove the blade grip unit, file smooth any burr that the setscrew might have caused. Getting the shaft back through the motor bearings can be tricky if the shaft is damaged or scored. That's why I think the squeeze-type collar might be a good option. Maybe the 3mm one is too large 'round - about to go up to the shop to check it out before I order.

[R_Lefebvre]

You guys still using a C-clip on the *backside* of the motor? How are you putting the groove in?

[jolyboy]

Not with these motors, they have two screws (prop saver) to hold the shaft similar to grub screws.

You shouldn't need a circlip on the back because the bell needs to clamp to the shaft. But I don't know the details of your motor

If you want a diy way to make the groove, try spinning the shaft with a drill clamped to the bench, then use a fine cutting disc on a dremel

Joly

[salience]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

You guys still using a C-clip on the *backside* of the motor? How are you putting the groove in?

These SS shafts are case-hardened I believe so it is a bad idea to score them or even grind a flat except at the end. As jb noted, on the 450 motor, and also my 500, the shaft at the outer end of the motor is secured with setscrews, and the shaft is also held quite tightly even without. I scored my first one for the inside circlip (on the 450) and quite soon it snapped at that location. So no circlip at all - that's why you need the setscrew collar between the two tail plates, plus a length of tube and maybe a spacer, to take up the whole interplate shaft. This prevents the starboard-side bearing from falling in, and takes the place of the circlip preventing the motor and shaft from moving to port.

Anyone need a 1.25 micro JST 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 wire? I need a 6-wire one for a camera, but am thinking of ordering the others as well - but each is 10x minimum so I'll have some extras.

[jolyboy]

Hey salience did you get your apm? How's it going for you?

[salience]

They sent me 4 of them! Some kind of error on their website. I returned 3. It'll be a while before I start the project however. Still getting the 500 with HC3-SX taking its videos. And I need to reconfigure my 600, change the ESC and wiring,,, and here it's springtime! Much to do getting the crops planted.

[jolyboy]

Ah understood. I'm still waiting for my tail shaft to arrive. The old one was snapped so I cant fly until it comes.

Rob has made some solid progress on our tail code, plus I have some of my own code to test so there is much to do here also. Sadly only bench testing for now

[salience]

The shaft on the FP setup? Did you score it at the snap location? Just trying to figure how it could just snap! My first 450 one did, but I had scored it for the motor circlip.
"Only bench testing"? Winter getting close down there? Opposite problem here, spring has finally sprung and the garden is making unreasonable demands on my time!

[R_Lefebvre]

Just be like me and plant rocks. Garden Schmarden.

[jolyboy]

Nah sorry what I meant to say was I snapped the shaft that I used for fixed pitch tail while I was removing it. The new tail shaft arrived, so heli will be flyable in the next couple of hours

So Rob, looks like I'll be testing your code today!

Yeah winter is coming, its raining and cold I'll still fly between showers though

[jolyboy]

Just tested the vp tail! It really needs a gov, because the motor halves it's rpm on big collective. It took a ton of balancing because of the inferior quality tail parts I was using. The motor and shaft were perfectly balanced.

Anyway, it flies great

Joly

[salience]

Amazing how easy this "major modification" is. I wonder why it is not all the rage. My 450 is so quiet, the scale enthusiasts would have to put a sound system aboard to mimic rotor sound effects...
"Inferior quality tail parts" = blade grips & blades? I bought those new mAlign control sets for both 450 and 500, very precise and smooth. Only downside I can see is that they don't sell spares for the various components. I did find tail blades a bit dodgy - they can seem to be identical but some are much better than others for vibes. Cheapos are out, mAlign ones at least acceptable. I hesitate to try expensive exotic ones without knowing if they will be better.
Guvn'r definitely. Hard to find ESC/Gov for that size,
mgm-compro.com/index.php?tid=brushless-speed-controllers-for-helicopters-1210-3-heli
this one is pricey but works fine and weighs practically nothing.
As for tail motors, my experience tells me so far you need to first calculate what the max tail speed would be with the reg TT setup. Then find a motor whose Kv will give it that top speed at the voltage you want to use. So far I think it's better to run the motor at less than max rated volts. Since you will be running habitually at less than max rpm, corresponding to the pitch curve you are using, 65-85% for example, then when your gov zaps it with max power for an abrupt heading change, you will certainly still be below the max motor amps/power rating. So for my current 500 project I'm using a 1100Kv 3-4S motor at 3S with a YEP45 on Gov Store mode. A 65-70-75% flat throttle curve that is giving me between 8200 and 9500 rpm, below the 11k or 12k max the Pro version runs at.

You don't need to worry too much about power and weight of the motor if you intend to use the heli just for AP and FPV. But this remains to be determined fully by those you can fly stunts - not me. Neither do I ever take my Aston Martin over the speed limit! And so far it looks like the tail consumes about 20% of the total power. That also to be verified for various flight types.

[jolyboy]

I'll be getting that esc you recommend for sure! Seems like the best option to me.

The tail parts I meant were the tail rotor hub, grips and blades. First off the center hole on the hub was not straight, so the blades didn't track, then the blades were way off balance (kbdd). I balanced the lot, but it still vibrates a little.

I really missed having such sharp tail response! The FP tail was smoother, but was mushy. Sometimes it felt like it had a mind of its own, especially when it let go under max collective! It would do the classic mcpx blowout spin

Joly

[salience]

Align has a 20A with gov, I have one but not tested. Much heavier too.
A non-Aligned hub! Make it yerself??
And KDBB way off?? Almost sprung for a pair of those the other day but shipping was going to be outrageous. I'll stick with the Aligned, not perfect, but best so far. Check the prices on Align at rcpioneerdotcom - best I've seen.

[R_Lefebvre]

And... just in time, I think I had another tail drive failure on the 600. Pretty sure I blew out the bearings again due to the belt being too tight. What a PITA.

Still not ready to take the plunge on DD tail... Have a lot of testing to do.

I did my first full-auto missions yesterday, from liftoff to touchdown:

[jolyboy]

Looks really good rob! That one glitch could be ignored since inertial nav would get rid if that in the next release anyway.

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, but the next release might not be ready for a bit yet, and I probably won't be updating to it for a while after that. But yes, it should help with exactly that type of thing.

It's actually SUPER rare for that to happen. I was surprised.

[salience]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

Still not ready to take the plunge on DD tail... Have a lot of testing to do.
I did my first full-auto missions yesterday, from liftoff to touchdown

Oh that's a nice clear area for testing, Rob. You should see my flying field up behind my house. Ringed with oak trees, and not very big. There is a very special-sounding thwack when main blades hit an oak! And outside that area, mountains and canyons all about. I'm really looking forward to having my future 600 totally APM'd so I can leave and return with safety from photo-ing the mountains all around. Until then I practice with less expensive gear.

You probably are still delaying the DD tail because you feel you havent found the best setup for it. Are you using 12S main motor? That'll be my setup. With 4x 4s flat-style batteries mounted along alu rails on the sides, and the electronics all inside. 3x 4S in series for the main, and 1 for the tail. That way, identical batteries with tail Ah at 25% of total. So main motor/batteries should always run out first, desirable I think. And this tail motor for first trials:
5mm 4-5S 530Kv 194gm 795W Turnigy Aerodrive SK3
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_Motor.html
This will run on 4S with a YEP60, giving a top rpm of about 8500, should be in the right ball-park.
Electronics will get juice either from the 5.5V YEP BEC of which there are two, or a CCPro at 6V for the servos.
Maybe you can glean some further ideas from the above...

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, it is pretty nice. I'm pretty lucky to have it and it's very close too.

I wish I'd been at it on Saturday. I was test flying a new F330 quad copter and I lost control, it flew into the bush behind my house and I can't find it.

The reason I haven't gone and done anything with the DD tail yet is largely just time. But also I haven't figured out the power system yet. I use 8S for the main motor. And I have a 2S battery for the servos and APM. I do NOT want to add a 3rd battery voltage level. Monitoring 2 is hard enough. So, I'm kind of stuck with 2S. I had picked up this motor a while back:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=17230

But this is more suited to a 3S system. It'll only pull a max of 7140 rpm on 2S which is a bit low I think? Well, actually... maybe it's not so bad? Normally I fly with 1800 RPM head speed. That would have a tail rotor speed of 7180 in fact. The only issue I guess is that when the battery is low, say 3.5V, it would have a MAX speed of 5950.

But again, my plan is to use Spingblades assymetric with 1200-1400 rpm. And assymetric tail blades. At those head speeds, tail rotor RPM is typically 4800-5600...

Hmmm.... what do you guys think?

I have this motor in my wish list which would be a little better:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=17229

Another aspect of this is that I was planning on running it on a 40A ESC. I'm not sure if that's enough.

So, this has become a bit of a development project... and I have several on the go.