TonicX z20a 980KV on 8s

[masjo]

I am currently running aTonicX z20a 980KV, 15/42/20/61, 60AMP Plush ESC, 2x 3s/3600mah/11.1v/30-40c max packs in series, 500mm z-weave blades, sport/mild 3D.

I haven't come across anyone running this motor on 8s

The motor specs say the cell count is 6-8 cells, and am curious as to why there would be no problems running my current application on 8s with the exception of the esc's max voltage being 26v. I am considering a HK YEP 120A ESC to run/try the 8s, and I may go up to an 1100kv as another option.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[kavic5150]

I've never heard of anyone going with an 8 cell setup and a Z20a motor. But if the specs say 8 cells you should be ok, just watch the motor temps when you land.

An 1100kv motor would be bigger. You would get a bit less flight time and a lot more power. You would also be able to run 6s packs.

That YEP120 should handle either setup, no problem. I'm glad your not attempting an 8s setup on a CC esc.

[masjo]

My thoughts exactly. But according to the calc I will need to reduce the pinion to a 13t, go up to a 50t first gear and run at approx 90% efficient because of the extra cells. This will keep my rpm around approx 2285. Weight will be a factor as well as pack sizes and CG. there is nothing solid here just an option I'm going to toy around with.

I'm also going to ditch the DS821s on the Hurricane for the BMS-661DMG+HS from my Nitro. These servos are flawless on a nitro heli. I've run these for over 3 years and they have never given up. Reason. . . .im wanting to run higher voltage servos on the nitro.

So I have transplants happening every where ATM. In a month I should have results.

[masjo]

UPDATE: ok, I opted to go for a Scorpion 3226-1400kv and the YEP 120AMP ESC. Now running 13/60/20/61.this is such a very sweet combo. Nice speed and a little more head room for adjustments. I first ran a max of 90% THR in all curves to see where I was. . . . . . But na! Not enough for me, so I bumped all max THRs to 100%. Nice! Plenty of kick and very happy with the combination. I haven't yet activated the gov in the ESC. Downside 4-5 mins flight. But that doesn't matter with a few sets of packs and 2 other helis to fly.

The ESC is very large weighing in at 164g, little room for mounting, but this combo makes it effortless in the air.

[Mikej]

Masjo,

Glad to hear you good it flying nicely. One thing - you won't be able to run Gov and get the same performance with your current gearing if you are at 100 throttle - the Governor needs a little "headroom" to allow it to change throttle input (you won't hear these changes as the YEP has an excellent Gov).

Change your gearing to 14 / 60 or even 15 / 60 and you should be good to go - a good test would be run a flat 85% "curve" and test the different gearing - once you get good performance then you have the right gearing with enough headroom for the gov to work.

[masjo]

Good tips. Also i saw a vid on youtube when setting up the gov. Charge the packs at 4v per cell, set the gov, this programs the gov at its optimum so when the packs are fully charged there is plenty of headroom for running the gov. And yes i am going to a 15t in the morning.

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by masjo

Good tips. Also i saw a vid on youtube when setting up the gov. Charge the packs at 4v per cell, set the gov, this programs the gov at its optimum so when the packs are fully charged there is plenty of headroom for running the gov. And yes i am going to a 15t in the morning.

Yeah, that's the standard way. Some take the mains and tails off, some leave them on

[masjo]

Ran with the 15t pinion today. Dropped all THR points in all curves down by 30 clicks (dx7). So at 85% efficiency. What a massive difference. Power, response and a shit load off head speed. My RC HELI GEAR RATIO phone app calc is giving me 2165.4rpm @ 85%. Another calc (Microsoft excel) is giving me 2224rpm @ 85%. Havnt tached speed yet. The ESC has a nice transition between idles. I'll get this gov sorted one of these weekends.

[kavic5150]

What flight times are you getting now that you've changed your throttle curve? And how are the motor temps when you land?

I'm surprised your getting that much power out of a Scorpion 3226. Some of the Protos flyers use the 900kv version of that motor to swing 430mm blades.

Glad it worked out for you, just a bit puzzled.

[masjo]

Still getting 4.30-5.00min flight. Sport flying for now untill I get use to the new setup and get this gov happening. For now motor and packs barely warm. Will take accurate temps and tach the HS when I fly next. Don't think I will go any further than 85%. Also I'm going to throw on the 550mm blades at some point and see how that goes. There is a lot of room to play with here. Love this new setup. It's great. Haven't swapped out any servos yet as planned cause too much happening dialling this new setup in. Happy to just fly for now

[masjo]

I tached the headspeed over the weekend using two devices at the same time. A galaxyS3 phone heli speed app activated taking the reading from underneath and a digital tachometer dt 2234c taching from above, in idle 2 @ 85% flat

Tachometer = 2356rpm
Phone app = 2341rpm
Temps in degrees: ESC 37 , Motor 53 , Batts 45

As mentioned above:
RC HELI GEAR RATIO phone app calc = 2165.4rpm @ 85%
Another calc (Microsoft excel) = 2224rpm @ 85%

I'm going to set the gov this weekend.

Update
Ok, gov is set. Easy! (Removed the pinion)
Curves are as follows:
N: 0 40 60 60 60 Pitch: 40 45 52.5 75 100
1: 70 70 70 70 70
2: 85 85 85 85 85
Temps: (two 5min flights in idle2 @85%)
ESC: 22, 24
MOTOR: 46, 50
BATTS: 33, 42

ESC Settings
Timing: 18
Brake: Off
Cutt off: slowdown / lipo
Cutt off voltage: 2.6-3.3
Cells: 6
SF: beep short
Act / gov: on / gov store
P: 0.9
I: 0.05
Startup: slow
PWM: 8
Startup: auto

Motor: Scorpion 3226-1400
Gearing: 15 60 20 61

Running sweet Az! Very happy

[blade_crasher]

Masjo:

Are you using a plastic or fancy frame?

I'm asking since I recently tried to fit my Z20 motor into my plastic frame with the 42t front gear, and the pinion will not mesh to the 42t gear before the motor "can" touches the frame.

I'm now wondering what size motor will fit in the plastic frame when using a 42t front gear?

I'm using 550mm blades, so I'm aiming for 2,000 approx. HS.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[masjo]

Plastic frame. No problems with a Z20A 980kv/14 &15t pinions/42t & 50t gears. You should not have problems with gear meshing. I'm now running a Scorpion 1400kv/14 & 15t pinions/ 61t gear.

[blade_crasher]

Interesting.

I wonder if it's the pinion. I'm using Rhino steel pinions.

From your experience, does the pinion / front-gear matter as to flight times for a given HS?

For example, if I can get 2,000 HS with a pinion A using a 50t gear or pinion B with a 42t gear, does that make any difference?

Originally Posted by masjo

Plastic frame. No problems with a Z20A 980kv/14 &15t pinions/42t & 50t gears. You should not have problems with gear meshing. I'm now running a Scorpion 1400kv/14 & 15t pinions/ 61t gear.

[masjo]

What are you running as far as pinions 14,15t?.

I've run a number of combinations and only seen a difference of about 2-3 minutes.

FYI: Stock Gaui can is 41.49mm dia, TonicX Z20A 980 is 42.71mm dia. Only 1.22mm difference.

[Mikej]

If you run a bigger primary gear and larger pinion you will get more teeth engaging which is preferable from a "Less likely to strip gears" perspective

[blade_crasher]

To make it all fit, I'm at 16 / 50 / 20 on the rewound Z20 which tested out at 947 kv after the rewind.

Will test it this weekend I hope to see how the HS via optical tach compares to the calculated values.

[PhillyD]

Keeping an eye on your proceedings Bro

[blade_crasher]

I measured my Z20 and it shows 43mm outside can diameter. Not much difference, but enough to rub.