Mikado Logo 600SE build begins=FINALLY!!

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by ElectricSheep

Diesel, sorry -- I don't mean to threadjack here, but we have the same question... Hope you'll forgive me!

I'll forgive you, but only if you tell me what the heck that thing is in front of your motor??? Is that a heat sink for the motor mount plate or what!? Thats one pretty bird you got there!

[torro]

it´s a fence for the motor

[Diesel]

After I disassembled the tail case to epoxy the bearings in I started fiddling around and found something interesting. I have read in the different forums that the Mikado belt guide on the tail is sufficient to keep the belt in place. Buuuut I got looking around in my shop and wouldn't you know it, the Protos 500 belt guides are an exact fit for the tail hub. I mean, you gotta get rid of the outer flange on the guides but other than that they are perfect for the job. Check it out:

Here we have the slightly modified belt guide off the protos-the bearing below it is the original bearing from the Mikado belt guide:

Now check this out. here is the original bearing supplied by Mikado for the belt guide:

Now it gets even crazier. Here is the hub measurement:

Now check this out. Here is the Protos guide measurement

CRAZY RIGHT?!?!
Now after all that I still dont have the balls to install it. I mean, it would work awesome!
Anyways,this is something I do to all my helis. I scribe marks on the tail boom so I can have a quick reference to make sure there hasn't been any movement that would cause belt slop. Just for peace of mind.

Oh, and I learned a long time ago that the vertical fin isn't always the best reference to make sure your tail shaft is 90 degrees to the main shaft. Instead I use a square and make sure the tail blades are parallel to the main shaft=works great!

Man, I better get to bed! Later fellas!

[torro]

which part of protos is that exactly?

this one?

http://msheli.com/Item.aspx?IDItem=33

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by torro

it´s a fence for the motor

Aaa bwahahahahaa!I nearly busted my gut when I read that
Down boy, down!! keeping the beast at bay huh?! Ha ha. Thats awesome!

Originally Posted by torro

which part of protos is that exactly?

this one?

http://msheli.com/Item.aspx?IDItem=33

Yea, that looks like the one. Its the guide that is used in 4 different places on the Protos. I dont think there is a difference between the MSH part # 50073 and 50091 guide pulley? They both use the 3x8x3 bearings.If you got a lathe that is the best way to gnaw that flange down. If you dont, put it on a M3 bolt with some spacers and lock it down with a nyloc nut.Just make sure it is locked down enough to were the bearings wont come out of the pulley,but that it is free enough to spin. Also make sure the bolt you use is long enough to act as a handle so you can keep your hands away from the grinder but still have some leverage on the pulley.Then take it to a smooth grind wheel and let er spin till the flange is all gone. It works pretty good. I put a bit of a chamfer on each edge of mine.
Spec wise it would work perfect, but I have always been a chicken to add hardware that ive made to a heli.
I think i'll put it in tonight and snap some pics of the mod. I dub thee-the "Diesel mod" ha ha haa!

[vanillagorilla]

flight report ?

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by vanillagorilla

flight report ?

I WISH!! After all the money I sunk in this beast I forgot to get the EC5 connectors for the esc!! DOH!! My LHS is aweful too. I told them to order a load of the EC5 connectors and I would buy them all. They ordered one set!! Then they marked it up 5 bucks! I gave up on them and ordered it from ReadyHeli yesterday. Im glad I did too, cause the black 700E Align soft carry cases were back in stock-FINALLY! Got my sticky paws on one of them finally .
Im worse than my wife-I get on the web to order a 7 dollar part and always end up getting $100+ worth of goodies. Darn Readyheli and their "spend $100 and get free shipping" !! Should be doing a maiden this next weekend-work willing!

[vanillagorilla]

Yeah, I also try and support the lhs but 99% of the time its just easier to order it online...as they normally have to order it themselves anyways....sales tax on big ticket items is also hard to swallow.

[Diesel]

For those that find this info useless than you can stop reading now. For the rest of us that like jacking around with mods on our helis keep reading
Alright fellas. Ive done a TON of fiddling around with my belt guide mod and have come to a conclusion. Unless you have parts lying around from a Protos and an EFlite CP Pro than there is probably an easier alternative out there. But man is this solid and there is NO way in hell the belt will hop the tracks with this!!! For those that are familiar with the Protos guide pulleys they will know that in its original application it takes on A-LOT more pressure/speed than in this application. I feel confident they will do just fine. So, for those that are interested here is what I did:
Needed materials:
Axial 2x6mm spacers=you will need 2 packs of them (total=12)
E Flite EFLH1183 or the entire blade grip assembly EFLH1171=the problem is, is that all you need are the 4 step/cone washers out of these kits.
E Flite EFLH1144 =head dampening shims for fine tuning the position of the guide
MSH Protos part#MSH51034
Now the reason for most of this BS is just to get the guide centered and keep the bearings from thrusting when you crank down on the bolt. My initial test was a failure. I got the guide centered but when I tightened down the bolt and nut it thrust the bearings in the plastic guide housing together. Sooo I chucked those in the trash and started over. The issue is the space/void in the plastic housing between the bearings. When tightened down it will thrust the inner race of the bearing causing binding. So what I did to curb this is use 2 of the step/cone washers with the step facing the bearing and inserted a .055mm washer from my Protos belt guide kit in between the step washers. More importantly you need about a .050mm washer in between the bearings. Then you use the other 2 step washers on the outside of the Protos modified belt guide. This is all sandwiched between a slew of Axial spacers,Protos 0.60mm belt guide washers,and the E Flite head dampening shims (used to get the guide EXACTLY centered on the tail hub). In hind sight I would say this probably seems to reek of OCD. I can already see many of you shaking your heads right now . Ha ha. I cant help it, its just the way I am ANyways here are the pics-hope ANY of this is making sense.
The Axial spacers:


This is the Protos guide spacer that comes with the guide pulley kit #MSH51034

With all the spacers,guide, etc. this is the space I am trying to fill

Here is the E Flite head dampening shim

Here I am greasing the bearings that will go into the guide plastic housing

Here is the step washer that comes with the E Flite grip assembly,this ensures that there will ONLY be pressure on the inner race and not the shield of the bearing

Here is what is sandwiched in between the 2 bearings of the plastic guide housing. 2 step washers facing outward and a 0.55mm washer in between them. If you can round up a 0.50 spacer that would be even better!


First I cleaned one of the bearings and used a small dab of CA on the outer race to lock it to the guide housing making sure none of the ca got into the bearing. Then I installed the step washer (step facing outward),followed by the 0.55 spacer and the other step washer (also facing outward). Then I cleaned the other bearing and swiped a dab of CA on it and sandwiched it all together. This is the finished product:

Here I tested it by putting the stank on the nut and bolt and making sure there was no binding on the bearings. Smooth as butta!!

Here it is installed and tested:



Safe to say,there will be NO belt jumping on my machine The other thing I like about this mod is that there is almost no force on the bearing/guide. Less drag on the power train and less wear on the belt.

[philipfrank]

a couple of us use this and it works well too.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by philipfrank

a couple of us use this and it works well too.

Ahh yes. This was the original fix before the Mikado belt guide came about isnt it? Very nice, and a lot easier than my mod! I had contemplated using this mod, but it was just too easy. Ha haa.

[Diesel]

O.k., I dug up one set of male EC5 connectors and 2 sets of female connectors. Soldering 8 gauge wire aint no joke!! All I need is one more male connector and then I will program it. Soon---very soon

Oh, I messed with the static wire a bit more and was able to get 0.3 ohms.

Almost there-I can taste the voltage already Mounted the batteries in the frame to check the clearances and my straps. Man, talk about a tight fit!! 2 22.2v 5000mah batteries will fit though.

[torro]

Originally Posted by Diesel

2 22.2v 5000mah

ahh, now i see, that your tail modding is for CG, too

[Chris_M]

Looks good Diesel Do you get continuity with that plastic bushing around the tail idler bearing? Looks like the perfect size...may have to pick one of those up. I have been running mine with two of the stock size idler bearings in the front hole. Also instead of having to use electrical tape to hold the ground wire across the frame you can sneak it behind the aileron servo and run it back across the rx tray and right down to the boom pin screw. This way you dont have to worry about the tape ever coming off and the wire getting into your main gear.
Your going to be amazed at how much quieter and graceful the 600SE is than the 700. Its a thing of beauty

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by torro

ahh, now i see, that your tail modding is for CG, too

Yea-no doubt!! Im thinking of investing in some lighter packs soon.Any recommendations???

Originally Posted by cmar143

Looks good Diesel Do you get continuity with that plastic bushing around the tail idler bearing?

Yes, I took a reading with my lead to the actual tail shaft and the other at the negative lead of the esc. I was getting about 1.2 ohms. Good enough for a spark suppression network. The easier way would be to find a "not so wide bearing" of the one that comes with the Mikado kit and double up on it instead of my mod. If I did it over again that is what I would do.Oh BTW, the plastic that MSH uses has graphite in it so it is conductive. Thats how I am getting continuity with the hub.Oh, and there are too many pictures in this post The ones with the electrical tape are "torros" 600SE I believe.Ya know-the one with the bada$$ powercroco in er

[torro]

Originally Posted by Diesel

.Any recommendations???

i fly the nano-tech 10S 4500 25/50C

they fit exactly!

[ElectricSheep]

Sorry, I've been in radio silence mode here because I've been having problems posting here. I just figured out that HeliFreak is kind of down (it won't respond) every day around 11:00 pm PDT! Anyway...

Originally Posted by Diesel

I'll forgive you, but only if you tell me what the heck that thing is in front of your motor??? Is that a heat sink for the motor mount plate or what!? Thats one pretty bird you got there!

Thanks -- I really like that TDR. As torro said below:

Originally Posted by torro

it´s a fence for the motor

Originally Posted by Diesel

Aaa bwahahahahaa!I nearly busted my gut when I read that
Down boy, down!! keeping the beast at bay huh?! Ha ha. Thats awesome!

Believe it or not, torro wasn't kidding in two ways: (1) yes, it's the "fence" and it helps keep the 13.4HP beast at bay. I never thought of it like that before -- but I think your description is pretty accurate! I'm not sure how powerful Tim Jones' "Beast" is, but I think that Scorpion 4530 Limited Edition motor is in the same power neighborhood. Only 100 of those motors ever made. ...And (2) it's really called the "CrocoZaun" and custom-made in Germany for the TDR/PowerCroco crowd. The English translation is "CrocoFence" -- and it's a big-azz motor heatsink...

BTW, I'd love to try the 4530 in the 600SE, but at 540kv I'd have to keep the throttle % too low in a 12S config.

Originally Posted by Diesel

Mounted the batteries in the frame to check the clearances and my straps. Man, talk about a tight fit!! 2 22.2v 5000mah batteries will fit though.

Wow, that's a tight fit! I was going to suggest some TP G6 4400 mAh packs, but maybe you want the 5000 mAh-sized packs to share with your 700E? If so, the TP G6 5000 mAh packs will be HEAVY for this bird. Especially if you keep the headspeed at 1900 RPM.

Anyway, if you're getting packs just for this bird, then I'd say most people are flying with 4000 to 4500 mAh packs to keep the bird light. As torro mentioned, he uses 4500 -- but in a 10S config. "Light flies right."

I use Hyperion EX (45/90C) 4200 mAh and TP G4 (45/90C) 4400 mAh packs on the 12S 600SE. The TP G6s weren't out yet when I got the G4s. I use Hyperion EX 4200 and TP G4 5000 mAh on the 10S (low-headspeed) 600SE.

[Big Fil]

Diesel, you probably already caught this but on your pics you posted your elevator servo was not secured in with the top two screws. Wouldn't want to hear about a bad maiden especially after all the time you've been waiting for those EC5s.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by Big Fil

Diesel, you probably already caught this but on your pics you posted your elevator servo was not secured in with the top two screws. Wouldn't want to hear about a bad maiden especially after all the time you've been waiting for those EC5s.

Thanks for the "heads up" . Actually all 4 servo mounting screws are off so I can gain access to the servo horn to mount/tighten it up during the V Bar programming. Thanks again though for bringing things to my attention. Better safe than sorry

Now for MR Electric sheep. First, how in the heck did you get your hands on a TDR?!?! Thats not easy to come by in the state. Believe me-ive looked. That is too cool about the motor heat sink!! Thanks a ton for the battery suggestions. I do believe I will fall in love with this bird enough to justify its own batteries. Um yea, most definitely Oh, did you ever get that tilt-a-whirl heli stand??

Now for an embarrassing moment. Keep in mind that I have never messed with the V Bar governor and for some reason beyond my recollection I did not see the MrMel video about how to set up for the V Bar governor. Sooo I was watching them tonight and then a little light bulb went on-I never ordered the hyperion phase sensor!! Double DOH!!! So I ordered one just as fast as my mouse could click from readyheli. I am a TOTAL newb when it comes to the V Bar and I just got my feet wet with the mini V in my 700E. Bear with me fellas,i'm getting there.

[taosgraveyard]

We are at about the same stage of building. I will be doing the maiden on my 600SE in a couple of days

Full size vbar pro with homespun Bluetooth unit
Pyro 700-45 with counter bearing
Spectrum telemetry using DX8 - have this on my trex 450 and it is GREAT
JIVE 120 HV ESC
BLS 451 cyclic servos
BLS 251 tail servo
Scott Gray Reactor 2X power bus
12S

Just finished wiring up some packs and getting a few charge/discharge cycles through
them now

Looking forward to your posts and maiden flight report