Is it possible the Spartan Quark killed my HSG-5084MG?

[rcjpth]

Ok I just got 2 brand new HSG-5084MG replacement from HitecRCD - they replaced since the previous failures were dead ampliphiers and motors (one had dead ampliphier and motor, another had dead motor). As I said they are brand new from HitecRCD as the replacement, not a repaired service servo.

I hopped one in this morning, made sure the Spartan Quark servo selection is 1st flash purple light - everything loooked good - I started the hovering test

After 3 minutes hovering, the tail stopped response. I took it down as emergency and got the tailboom strike. The heli landed on its skids but the blade stroke to the boom (my servo was on the other side of the boom so no paddle or blade strike to the servo.

I checked and found the servo SO HOT, VERY VERY HOT. Prior to the test flight, I checked and made sure the tail control 100% smooth, moved freely..

AGAIN, the HSG-5084MG is dead again - (my 450pro runs on 6v) so what was killing the servo? This is the third one after the last 2 HSG-5084MG were dead because of dead amplifier and motors. I talked to HItec- they said it must have been the Gyro...

Angelos, can you please confirm Spartan Quark with 1st flash selection is for 5084MG and safe for HS-5084MG. If it is - why I kept having HSG-5084MG dead for 3 times already!!!

Thanks,
Jake

[lankey]

If you were running a 5083MG I could see there might be a mistake in your pulse width selection, as it's stated to run at both 1520 and 960usec in the user guide- a misprint I think!

The Spartan website states 1520usec and you can run the servo at 6V, so I don't see where the problem lies.... I'd like to know myself as I plan to run a 5084 with my Quark!

[Laurens]

I run the 5083MG, and I do not have any problems using mine. I am looking in the manual, and mine stated 5083MG at both position one and 4 too. You need the first flash though, the 5083MG needs 4 flashes.

[rcjpth]

If it happens once or twice then it's kinda ok BUT this is the third time on the third 5084MG I set it up with the Quark. And HS-5084MG is fried the third time. (not even really flying but hover test LOL - WTH happened here?)

I hopped in xheli.com Raiden DMA-046, it runs good, smooth and responds very well in 6 packs I unloaded this sunday morning.

So it tells me, something either is not right from Quark or ESC electric or the hsg-5084mg (it is odd for 3 servo at fault so Hitec, I doubt it.) BUT if my electric setup is at fault, it will burn/fry any another brand of servo. With the new servo, every flight is smooth and great, 6 packs unloaded in flips, roll, etc, servo still works perfect - that was 6 flight mild 3D.

So I would ask Angelos on this what could possibly fry the HS-5084MG? (My electric setup or my mechanical setup BUT why another servo still works fine without any issue except HS-5084MG kept being fried by what?? Is it explanable?) This cost me almost $80 for crash repair and parts included cnc and electronics and it was $165 I spent on the Quark!

Thx!

Originally Posted by Laurens

I run the 5083MG, and I do not have any problems using mine. I am looking in the manual, and mine stated 5083MG at both position one and 4 too. You need the first flash though, the 5083MG needs 4 flashes.

[Angelos]

Originally Posted by rcjpth

AGAIN, the HSG-5084MG is dead again - (my 450pro runs on 6v) so what was killing the servo?

The 5084MG is rated for 4.8V operation only (second line in spec): http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_file...135/5084MG.pdf

A high end gyro like the Quark will demand from the servo to keep up with constant and rapid position changes throughout the flight. If the servo runs at higher than rated voltage it will most likely overheat and cut out as you have experienced. Another very common problem that usually goes unnoticed is faulty bearings in the tail blade grips which may appear to run smoothly when bench testing but lock up with the centrifugal forces when the rotor is turning.

-Angelos

[Angelos]

Originally Posted by lankey

The Spartan website states 1520usec and you can run the servo at 6V...

I removed the 6V spec to avoid future confusion. I believe the confusion comes from Hitec's own datasheet (http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_file...135/5084MG.pdf) that shows spec for both 4.8V and 6V but on another line they tell you that it should be used at 4.8V only.

-Angelos

[lankey]

Wooah... thanks for the heads up Angelos I'm damn sure I checked the operating voltage up to 6V with the servo liturature.... good job i've not actually installed it! Oh well, there goes another neat install trying to find somewhere to put a stepdown!

Angelos, you do need to correct the 5083MG pulse width specs in the Quark user guide! It's repeated as both 1520 and 960uSec!

[rcjpth]

I guess that could be the answer - 6v is the primary suspect. I read somewhere the Hitec said the HSG-5084MG is capable 6v - hmmm insteresting! I will try the step down...thx

[Laurens]

Somehow they listed the 6V speed, but they did not tell that it wouldn't work on 6V. I never flew my 5083 on 6V, so I haven't had that problem.

[rcjpth]

Ok, so I called Hitec and talked to Mike@HitecRCD, the suggestion is to run the servo at 4.8v as the best approach.

He said, the Gyro said supporting HSG-5083MG but it doesn't mean support 5084MG. It might damage the servo at the setting of 5083MG. Set aside of 6v since it can be easily done, I would ask whether Spartan Quark fully support HSG-5084MG at what selection is (1, 2 or 3 or 4 flash??)

Please help and I don't want to crash again because the servo frying!!

Thx

[Angelos]

Originally Posted by lankey

Angelos, you do need to correct the 5083MG pulse width specs in the Quark user guide! It's repeated as both 1520 and 960uSec!

It will be corrected on the next re-print. In the meantime we have already added it on the knowledge base topic 89 (http://www.spartan-rc.com/resources/...q.php?topic=89) which the user guide references in page 1.

rcjpth,
Yes one flash for the 5084MG.

-Angelos

[lankey]

Originally Posted by Angelos

It will be corrected on the next re-print. In the meantime we have already added it on the knowledge base topic 89 (http://www.spartan-rc.com/resources/...q.php?topic=89) which the user guide references in page 1.

rcjpth,
Yes one flash for the 5084MG.

-Angelos

[rcjpth]

Angelos, please see the question from HitecRCD regarding 5084MG burn-up issu


" Thank you for choosing Hitec products. The 5084 is rated at 6v, so I don’t think the voltage caused it to burn up. However, I do think that the refresh rate might have had something to do with the burn ups. How fast does the Gyro refresh(Hz)?"*
Thank you,*Billy TompkinsCustomer Service Rep.Hitec RCD, LLCMultiplex USAPhone (858) 748- 8440*********** Fax (858) 859-2618*********** 12115 Paine St.*********** Poway CA, 92064*******

[RMG2]

I do not agree with Angelos regarding the 5084 & 5083 being 4.8V only. We have been flying a 5083 for 2-years on 6V and a 5084 for 1-year on 6V. I also have two friends flying 5084 on 6V for several months with zero problems.

I called Hitec and got it straight from tech. support that both servos are totally fine on 6V.

Rcjpth has got something else going on but it's not because the servos are on 6V that they are burning out???

[jauguston]

I am in the process of replacing two cheapie gyro's with Quarks. A Trex 450 and a Trex 500 both with 5084's and 6v. The 5084's have been fine with the cheap gyros on 6v. Should I be afraid ???

Jim

[Angelos]

Originally Posted by RMG2

I do not agree with Angelos regarding the 5084 & 5083 being 4.8V only.

This isn't about agreeing with me. You are not agreeing with the engineer(s) who designed these servos and wrote the spec sheet. I am sure they didn't put "4.8V ONLY" for no reason. http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_file...135/5084MG.pdf Becuase you are running the servo successfully at 6V (outside the stated spec) does not mean that everyone can. Ambient temperature plays a very important role as is the helicopter that you are using it on. In Canadian winter you could probably run it at 7V too! Also a short servo arm makes the servo travel more on average while a longer servo arm demands more torque from the servo. And there are possibly many more factors that contribute on how hard the servo will work on a particular helicopter setup. The engineers who designed the servo have taken these factors into account and in the spec sheet they state that the servo will only work reliably at 4.8V

Originally Posted by rcjpth

Angelos, please see the question from HitecRCD regarding 5084MG burn-up issu... " Thank you for choosing Hitec products. The 5084 is rated at 6v....."

The question is who you are going to trust; the engineer who designed the product and is stating 4.8V ONLY in the spec sheet or the guy who was hired to provide technical support. I would go with the first one any time. But perhaps you write back to technical support and give them the opportunity to explain why 6V is ok when then spec sheet clearly shows otherwise.

Originally Posted by jauguston

I am in the process of replacing two cheapie gyro's with Quarks. A Trex 450 and a Trex 500 both with 5084's and 6v. The 5084's have been fine with the cheap gyros on 6v. Should I be afraid ???

We have dozens of customers successfully using both 5083 and 5084. It is very probable that a higher performance gyro will demand more from your servo too. Until Hitec decide if this servo can run at 6V I suggest that you go with the spec sheet and use a voltage drop down.

-Angelos

[RMG2]

Originally Posted by Angelos

This isn't about agreeing with me. You are not agreeing with the engineer(s) who designed these servos and wrote the spec sheet. I am sure they didn't put "4.8V ONLY" for no reason. http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_file...135/5084MG.pdf Becuase you are running the servo successfully at 6V (outside the stated spec) does not mean that everyone can. Ambient temperature plays a very important role as is the helicopter that you are using it on. In Canadian winter you could probably run it at 7V too! Also a short servo arm makes the servo travel more on average while a longer servo arm demands more torque from the servo. And there are possibly many more factors that contribute on how hard the servo will work on a particular helicopter setup. The engineers who designed the servo have taken these factors into account and in the spec sheet they state that the servo will only work reliably at 4.8V



The question is who you are going to trust; the engineer who designed the product and is stating 4.8V ONLY in the spec sheet or the guy who was hired to provide technical support. I would go with the first one any time. But perhaps you write back to technical support and give them the opportunity to explain why 6V is ok when then spec sheet clearly shows otherwise.



We have dozens of customers successfully using both 5083 and 5084. It is very probable that a higher performance gyro will demand more from your servo too. Until Hitec decide if this servo can run at 6V I suggest that you go with the spec sheet and use a voltage drop down.

-Angelos

Angelos, not trying to argue but there seems to be conflicting data presented from Hitec regarding the voltage ratings for their servos.

Read here please.
http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_file...ervomanual.pdf

Notice also that Hitec list speed and torque ratings using both 4.8V and 6V for the 5084 in their standard description. Why would they do that if the servo was not to be used on 6V???
http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HSG-5084MG

[Laurens]

If they're contradicting theirselves, I'd play safe and only use 4.8V. Its not worth crashing your heli because of a little difference in voltage.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Originally Posted by Laurens

If they're contradicting theirselves, I'd play safe and only use 4.8V. Its not worth crashing your heli because of a little difference in voltage.

[RMG2]

Originally Posted by Laurens

If they're contradicting theirselves, I'd play safe and only use 4.8V. Its not worth crashing your heli because of a little difference in voltage.

That would be logical if a person was just starting new with the servos in question. But, while many users have PROVEN these servos for years on 6V makes the question of voltage not wash on the subject.

Remember, the subject of this debate was that a person is burning out 5084 servos while using a Spartan gyro and powering both at 6V. Blaming the servo burnout on the fact that they are being powered by 6V just isn't logical considering all the real life use that has been applied to these servos on 6V by many users.

There is another reason the starter of this thread is burning out the 5084 servos besides running them on 6V???