better manual/article

[mrultralite]

http://downloads.hobbico.com/misc/tt...ary-wright.pdf

[donskills]

Just got it from Mr.Mels local forum here in Sweden yesterday!! Very good reading!

[gwright]

Glad you think it's good reading, hope it helps some folks. I kinda pulled my hair out with my first one, but thankfully I didn't give up and now have them in all the machines I currently fly. I've intended to write this for quite some time but never got around to it. last weekend tropical storm debbie parked herself over florida so I was house-bound with no golf and no flying , so I watched some movies, opened a bottle of my favorite adult beverage, and started typing.
I only covered basics in that supplement, and to be honest there are some things I still haven't needed to play with myself so I'm a bit in the dark on them. I watch most of the forums and if you have any questions I'll try to answer if i can.

[NitroAl]

Well done Gary and thank you very much for your time and effort!

There are a few details you have covered there that have me re thinking my setup, particularly the flip and roll rates and feed forward and the blade efficiency lost with rates too high!

Do you think, with 2200HS, 95mm tail blades and a .03sec/60deg servo I would still benefit from increasing the length of the servo horn? This is on a raptor50 with X50 tail and the 8t pulley!

[donskills]

Gary! It feels like I should buy you another bottle of your favorite adult beverage in gratitude! I have the article in my iPhone and have now read it a good few tlmes! I have wanted to understand PID control loops for a while and your guide has helped ta massive amount! Your general set up tips remind me a bit of the TDR manual and I wish more manufacturers and designers would follow suite. Very interesting input on tail servo arm length. total movement on the TDR tail is 6mm in both directions for full throw and Jan recommends a servo arm length of 10.5mm. Should I also step it up to 17mm?
Great weather and health to you and yours!!

[gwright]

can't comment on servo arm on TDR. You want a really really fast response on the tail and using partial throw with a long arm give you that. You want to shoot for having the servo throw limited somewhat, like 50 to 80 percent. Yes, this gives up some resolution but speed is far far more important.
The PID loop comment is an interesting one. I felt the same way and spent many hours with our friend google <G>. I then got ahold of a powerpoint someone had done on the subject for something on his masters degree. While my explanation isn't 100% accurate, it's more of a basic understanding that fits with the algorithm. Yes, I've studied the PID algorithm too. I'm a bit strange did I mention?

Favorite beverages start with makers and end with mark, or jim and end with beam <G>.

[N2UMK]

Hi Gary, -
Your manual/instructions are very helpful. I see that they are posted on the ACE/TT website. I plan to use them once I get passed the throttle issue.

I cannot get the esc to arm. It goes into programming mode instead of arming once the GT5 finishes booting up. I've tried everything I can think of except going to a new model memory default and starting over.
It appears that the GT5 and the ESC are not seeing low throttle. I have collective, elevator and aileron; just no throttle. The ptich curves and throttle curves are all linear now (they were not at first - I had previously programmed them). I have an Align 550e that I have over 540 flts on with my JR9303 and a Spectrum AR700 with the Align 3G system. It's worked great until recently. I bought the GT5 to try out on a 450SEv2, however, decided it should go on the 550. I also bought a new Futaba 8FGH because I want to put all my helis on it. So I decided to do that at the same time. The CC Ice 100 has about 250 flts on it. I am also using the CC BEC PRO. Voltage on the GT5 is reading 6.1V.
Too many variables! I'm close but not there yet.
Any suggestions/help?

Thanks!

[donskills]

On Futaba, plug the ESC to the rx, not the throttle output on the GT5.

[gwright]

On every ESC that I've ever used you have to reverse the throttle channel on futaba radios compared to others. It's probably seeing full throttle rather than low throttle and thus not arming,.. or the ATV's aren't open enough for it to see a low enough position to arm.
One of the keys to setting up the GT5 that I don't know if I harped on enough in the supplement, is setting up correct cyclic pitch ranged to begin with. You don't do this in the GT5. You use ATV's int he transmitter. It's a bit strange as they have pit,ele,ail screens in the GT5 and the only one that actually changes the amount of physical movement is the pitch. The cyclics you use transmitter ATV's, and folks don't usually understand this so they end up with like 12 to 15 degrees cyclic available and the machine is so twitchy they can't dial in the gains to begin with. While in programming mode in the gt5, set the pitch range to what you want, then go to zero pitch and measure cyclics. Use transmitter ATV's to adjust the cyclics to something low like 7 or 8 degrees each way. This will give a smooth machine that's easy to fly allowing you to get gains setup very quickly, then you can adjust ATV's higher on cyclics for the rotational rate you want. I'm around 11/11 on my machines on cyclic. Then of course readjust feed forward for the higher rates, but I think I explained that pretty well in the supplement.
You also want to adjust the cyclic servo endpoints for no binding, which is 6 settings in the GT5,.. you have "A" and "B" endpoints for each of the three servos. I think default is 250, max 280, and all my machines are in the 180 to 200 range. Extremely fine adjustment, so I'd recommend changing them all 6 like 20~30 points, then checking, then in 10 point increments, etc.

[N2UMK]

donskills - so throttle goes to the rcvr (channel 3) and not the GT5 port labeled "throt/esc"? I will try that. I'm using S-bus so my thinking was it all goes thru the GT5 as the instructions show.
Instead of S-bus, I may treat the R608SB as a "normal receiver" and see what happens when connected that way.
Thanks for your reply.

gwright -
Thanks for that detail. I will work on it tonight after work. Very helpful. I did know about channel 3 throttle needing to be reversed Futaba. I did it both ways and there was no joy either way. No spool-up either way.

Do you agree with donskills? Does he have it right? Throttle/ESC goes into channel 3 on the R608SB Rcvr even though it's connected through the SB port (rcvr to GT5 (Imp 1 #6)?
The GT5 connection diagram clearly shows that when using the Futaba S-bus there is only one connection to the rcvr from S-bus port to Imp 1 and that the throttle/esc goes into port #1 on the GT5 along with the others. This is the way I have it. I have tried changing the ATV on channel #3 - throttle (up and down) while connected and no joy. It appears to go into programming mode and then error mode. I've watched the "you tube" videos on the GT5 from Ace/TT. There are 5 short ones showing connection setup/install. Followed them but no joy.

It's got to be something simple. I will try again tonight.

Thanks for your suggestions guys - much appreciated!

[gwright]

I have three machines flying currently, all with GT5's, one with standard 7ch reciever and the composite cable to the GT5 , and the other two with sbus recievers and only the sbus connector going to gt5. All three have ESC plugged into the GT5 (I only fly electric). First thing I'd do is remove the blades (both main and tail), cause I'm not the most carefull person and have had inadvertent motor starts in the workshop before and learned my lesson <G>. Next, I would try maxing out both ATV's on the transmitter throttle channel, plug it all in and if it doesn't arm then move the throttle stick all the way up and try again (or reverse throttle channel). Additionally, make sure that you have default throttle curves in that flight mode, or at least 0 at bottom and 100 at top. I guess plugging the esc into the reciever would be a great idea as a test since it eliminates the gt5 as being the culprit. If that works, then there is something not right with the sbus mappings. There is no way to change sbus mappings in the gt5, so I would assume it's sending channel 3 pulses to the throttle ouput. One way to check would be to plug a servo into the gt5 where you currently have the esc. If the servo doesn't move when you move throttle stick, or doesn't move full swing both ways, there's something wrong with the sbus mapping or the transmitter atv's.

[N2UMK]

Moving the esc cable from the GT5 to the rcvr channel 3 worked. The esc armed without changing the ATVs on the throttle channel (3) in the 8FGH. Now i can finish setting up the GT5.

Gary - I will try your additional suggestions today to see why it does not work going directly into the GT5. I have the mains off and I hold the heli to the bench when armed.

This info was very helpful. Thank u both; much appreciated.

[gwright]

If you can measure the pulse width coming from the reciever, then from the GT5, you'll probably find the answer. The jeti spin box used to program Hacker and jeti ESC's can do this. I have one, as I only use those ESC's, so when I find time I'll compare the pulse widths to see if the gt5 is affecting it in some way. I've never seen it as an issue, but I know that these esc's arm when the pulse is below 1.05, start at 1.3, full at 1.8 and if you want auto bailout on the newer ones then throttle hold must be above 1.2, soft start below 1.2. With these numbers I setup transmitter to what I'm reading before I plug in the esc. Started doing this when they came out with auto bailout. Due to this the esc's work when I plug them in, never had to fiddle with atv's or curves for initialization and full throttle after using the spin box to "pre-setup".

By the way, for anyone using the hacker or jeti spin controllers, around 1.2~1.25 you get goot auto bailout response,..and the higher you go in that mode you create a delay from when you flip the switch so you have auto bailout correct but you also get a delay before the motor "goes" so you want it as low as possible without crossing the threshold into slow start range.

[N2UMK]

Got thru the setup to hover testing. GT5 appears to be working well.
Gary - I did plug in a servo into the throttle esc port on the GT5. Servo moves about 45 degrees, not the usual 60. Xmitter ATVs stock. I did max out the end points on the throttle channel in xmitter; CC ICE100 would not arm.
Cannot resolve esc arming issue via GT5 port but it works fine in channel 3 of rcvr as was suggested by donskills.

Your direction here was most helpful................from G Wright.........
"One of the keys to setting up the GT5 that I don't know if I harped on enough in the supplement, is setting up correct cyclic pitch ranged to begin with. You don't do this in the GT5. You use ATV's int he transmitter. It's a bit strange as they have pit,ele,ail screens in the GT5 and the only one that actually changes the amount of physical movement is the pitch. The cyclics you use transmitter ATV's, and folks don't usually understand this so they end up with like 12 to 15 degrees cyclic available and the machine is so twitchy they can't dial in the gains to begin with. While in programming mode in the gt5, set the pitch range to what you want, then go to zero pitch and measure cyclics. Use transmitter ATV's to adjust the cyclics to something low like 7 or 8 degrees each way. This will give a smooth machine that's easy to fly allowing you to get gains setup very quickly, then you can adjust ATV's higher on cyclics for the rotational rate you want. I'm around 11/11 on my machines on cyclic. Then of course readjust feed forward for the higher rates, but I think I explained that pretty well in the supplement.
You also want to adjust the cyclic servo endpoints for no binding, which is 6 settings in the GT5,.. you have "A" and "B" endpoints for each of the three servos. I think default is 250, max 280, and all my machines are in the 180 to 200 range. Extremely fine adjustment, so I'd recommend changing them all 6 like 20~30 points, then checking, then in 10 point increments, etc."

There are a fair number of steps to go thru, lots of parameters, your step by step approach made it easier for me. Plan to finish tweaking at the field this weekend. Then fly!
Thanks again for your help.

[darkfa8]

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