sideways flipping loop

[neverland]

sorry to be thick, but who is this nick.

[RogerRabit]

Don´t know did not get the joke.
Probably because i´m no native.


BTW.

I get throug on 4 out of 5 without crashing now, 4 flips in whole loop.
Still far too ugly to show (anything from squares to ellipsis to eggs in the sky)

Found following

- on the uphill death spiral you need a lot of "push" momentum in the part after the horizontal flown frontflip.
- you need to be without pitch on the frontflip in upwards momentum.
- it is very weird that you do not have to reverse pitch in the whole part upwards and that you have to stabilize pitch in the same direction.
- you have to slow the frontflip at the upward part in the last section and feed in negative pitch a little early otherwise you "square it" and it does not round shape. Same problem like in e piroloop.
- the downward death spiral is hard to control if you do not decelerate the chopper much at the top of the loop.

So - keep on practising

I think it would look best with 8 flips or continous flipping but that seems hard to get from the rhythm of that figure.

BTW

A horizontol flipping circle looks better from my point of few it you flip against the moving direction, e.g. backflips while flying forward.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by neverland

sorry to be thick, but who is this nick.

I would assume Nick Maxwell.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by RogerRabit

I get throug on 4 out of 5 without crashing now, 4 flips in whole loop.
Still far too ugly to show (anything from squares to ellipsis to eggs in the sky)

Now we need video of the sim version of the move.

[neverland]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

I would assume Nick Maxwell.

oh right. is he on helifreak? i bet he knows this maneuver already. its the sort of ridiculous manuever your likely to think of when you've been messing about with helis for a few years
i can sort of do it now, but the upward movement still looks very sloppy. i'll try to record it. dont expect too much

[RogerRabit]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Now we need video of the sim version of the move.

Like i wrote

"Still far too ugly to show (anything from squares to ellipsis to eggs in the sky)"

[RogerRabit]

The loop is nearly a turn this time, but i had eggs, loops, squares and all sort of odd shapes.
But the upward death spiral starts to get in the rhythm.

Is it that what you mean?

four forward flips while the loop.

How do i convert a realflight file to a movie????

[neverland]

i use the gregion app to record my phoenix movies to mp4 or something. unfotunately my laptop isnt fast enough to do it that well, so they come out as jumpy little movies.

i think its 4 full flips per circuit, so theres one per quarter rotation. that would be 'mathematically' correct. it doesnt sound many flips but its alot in practice to put in. but damn it its hard. each 'flip- aileron bend' combination has a special kind of input you have to learn. trouble is when you 'lock into' it so that quarter works, it throws off your timing for the next section. im really struggling with it and ashamed to say i have made no real progress in several hours of work

[Steve Graham]

Chin up,

Darkest hours just before sunrise I sense this will become a yardstick maneuver. Many will never measure up but when you do master it should be a source of pride.

[neverland]

thanks for your kind words of encouragement

well i managed to grab a recording at last.

phoenixRC (0 min 26 sec)

its coming together now. i have found a solution to the upwards part. once i'd did it (by accident i think)i knew immediately it was correct. the problem was i could only do it right about every 10 goes at first! you have to use collective and aileron input after it finishes the upwards 'death spiral' and faces forward again, which flips it up to the top of the loop. its obvious when you do it once...!

now i just have to make it tidy

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by neverland

...
well i managed to grab a recording at last.
...
now i just have to make it tidy

Looks like it's coming along well. I can identify the intent from the video (rolling sideways loop). As you said, just tidy up from there.

How are your normal rolling loops? (ie. nose first, tail first, inverted, etc..). I imagine these would have the same types of stall issues on the vertical components (if started from stationery).

I wonder if this would be any easier for you starting with sideways momentum (either regular sideways loop, or tail-in funnel (CCW, upright, shallow angle)).

[Steve Graham]

Yeah I've been working on rolling loops for a few months. Keeping the main shaft pointed precisely where you want it to drive it through he loop is paramount.

I think if anything is gonna help me with this new move it's is the hours I've spent doing tiny nearly knife-edge circuits and learning the inputs for a smooth half flip transition between upright forwards and inverted backwards.

[RogerRabit]

Originally Posted by neverland

thanks for your kind words of encouragement

well i managed to grab a recording at last.

phoenixRC - YouTube

its coming together now. i have found a solution to the upwards part. once i'd did it (by accident i think)i knew immediately it was correct. the problem was i could only do it right about every 10 goes at first! you have to use collective and aileron input after it finishes the upwards 'death spiral' and faces forward again, which flips it up to the top of the loop. its obvious when you do it once...!

now i just have to make it tidy

: :


King! we all

:


in front of you.
You posted the simvid first.

[neverland]

cheers roger, but i am not worthy. well maybe a bit haha.

a couple of things. make sure you are nose in upright at the bottom of loop, and nose in inverted at the top [or the opposites, it doesnt matter, it just has to be opposite]. i have a tendency to get it mixed up when descending, which destroys the maneuver. also i just noticed i stopped the vid at the exact point you have the make the 'magic input' that makes the whole thing work. if you can nail this input you have it in the bag , more or less. also a big boost at the bottom, before the death spiral, seems to help 'time me' for the following series of inputs

How are your normal rolling loops? (ie. nose first, tail first, inverted, etc..). I imagine these would have the same types of stall issues on the vertical components (if started from stationery).

i'm ok at forward rolling loops both ways. i cant do them backwards though. in fact id never thought of doing them backwards. so thanks for putting the idea in my head

but your right, its difficult to keep the flow going with rolling loops. you need an elevator input at certain times to get the curve of the loop, just like you need an aileron input in this manuever to get it to loop. its very complicated what with the collective timing issue as well. forward momentum really helps to keep it flowing, but wont help at all if the inputs arn't correct

[clicky]

I have noticed one tendency you have in the video: you do whole 360º flip before continuing. Not half, part of the loop, another half, then another port of the loop, etc...

(I am not saying it is not hard they you're doing it... maybe even harder).

[neverland]

you spotted something i hadn't thought of; its true. i hadn't really decided to do it that way, it just seemed easier to break down that way - 4 quarters and 4 complete flips. i think you could do it in half flip stages, and i it would be better, but harder. all you'd have to do is leave a little space after each half flip. easier said than done i expect.

hmm thanks for putting another idea in my head. what with backwards rolling loops... thats my summer tied up

[Steve Graham]

Just curious if anyone else has been working on this. I've gotten to where I can occasionally pull it off with a single flip at 4 points throughout the loop but not continuos flipping. Never taken the time to learn how to save a sim video for publication?

[RogerRabit]

I have them down in the sim in one direction, starting nose in normal, doing the loop ccw in front of me.
The do not look too nice yet.

I did not try them IRL yet, i only have the 800 running, and i will not use that one for a first test.

My problem area is the 3:00 clock to 12:00 clock ccw upwards part of the loop.
Either i do it small then the gravity moment is enough but then they look not really good.
If i have to accelerate in that part i have to "cheat" a little in the flipping direction and have to correct that with tail in the 12:30 to 11:30 part.

I stopped training them now since a few days - from my experience the brain needs a break, then it is easier in the next round.

You are on the right track.

You do them 4 half flips in the beginning. Then you work on from that.
I can only do it 4 halfflips synchronized.
I am far from continous flipping.