A few thoughts so far

[trillian]

My maiden with the Beam didn't go so well. I didn't realise how the tail pulley was constructed as it came assembled and the manual doesn't show it taken apart. So what happened was the part of the pulley with the set screws was out of alignment with the inner part and so the screws were bottoming out on the inner bit and not the tail shaft. Somehow it was still snug enough for a test hover but when I took it out for a proper flight and did a pirouette to check the rudder response it just kept right on spinning. I was only about ten feet off the ground spinning wildly out of control and had to hit TH and auto it.

I was able to level it enough so that it just landed on the skids. Even though it was not that hard a landing the skid struts broke. (but the blades were OK, no real damage).

When the tailrotor shaft slipped it came off the bearing on one side which allowed the belt to come off. The belt bunched up a bit at the front pulley which stopped the pulley turning and with whatever energy still in the blades the torque it applied to the lower Jesus bolt made it destroy the top bit of the ali fitting that holds the tail drive pulley. Ordinarily that would not happen as the tail pulley and main gear would spin freely but it does expose the weakness of that ali fitting that the Jesus bolt goes through.

The only other minor damage was that even as slight as the forces were it was still enough to tug on one of the main blade grip balls just enough to strip the threads in the grip arm.

So my thoughts are that the top part of the one-way where the tail pulley mounts and holding the Jesus bolt is still a potential weak point. The ali grip arms with the link balls threaded into them are a failure waiting to happen. This seems it might be cured with the latest revision of the grip arms. For the moment I have replaced the link balls with Rave ENV ones that have a bolt that goes through the other side but this was a pain in the rear because the ball is a different size. The Beam uses a non-standard ball size that is bigger. So I have ordered the newer grip arms and the new turnbuckle links.

For the moment I have fitted the V1 gear / pulley and one-way unit that also came with my kit because I'm not seeing just the top part in stock here, they have the V-1 version hub by itself but not the V2 version.

The skid struts are another weak point. They look sturdy but snap right off with just a little bump, I was quite surprised that happened. So for the moment I have some Raptor skids on there and I have a set of universal ali skids in red that will look better and should fit the Beam skid pipes, I just need to drill new holes and my el cheapo hobby drill is not up to the job.

When I get the new hub / pulley holder bit whatever it's friggin called, for the V2 gears, I will put a longer Jesus bolt with a locknut on the other side. I might also see if a locking collar will fit on the main shaft under the top bearing because it makes me slightly nervous that the only thing holding the main rotor shaft in is the lower Jesus bolt after the way the first one sheared and bent and almost came out.

[wadders248]

That sounds like you've found all the week points that I've experienced in just one flight!

My tail drive pulley luckily slipped in the other direction, so I just wasn't getting enough pitch to keep the tail solid in hard pitch moves.

The threads in the ali fitting for the jesus bolt stripped on mine and I can't seem to find a jesus bolt that you can buy separately. I ended-up using an Align DFC bolt and turned-down the head to clear the bearing block.

It's a shame that there's these few weak areas, because when it's flying properly it's great. I put a few packs through mine yesterday lunchtime, mainly practising piro-flips and it's rock solid, but still nimble.

Fingers crossed you have some better luck!

[trillian]

Yesterday I took the Beam out and this time managed a few proper flights. It flies very well so far. Due to the light overal weight it feels really punchy, even at very conservative headspeeds. I don't know what headspeeds I'm getting until I get someone to tacho it but my guess would be not much more than 2000 rpm at the moment. (it's a 510KV motor and 13 tooth pinion so the headspeed is limited right now anyway). I am running at 72% throttle in idle-1 so I'm not sure if that equates to 72% in the Kontronik or not but it was just a guess at a starting point.

For the moment I have some Raptor skids fitted but will be keeping an eye out for something more stylish and a bit narrower footprint, more like an F3C style skid.

I got a new tailrotor shaft and pulley and this time made sure the grub screws were seated into the divets in the shaft and they are locktited and as tight as you can reasonably get them for that size hex. I am tempted to put a 2nd grub screw on top of each one because they'd never be able to back out that way but it's probably overkill.

Today I received the new updated and much sturdier looking grip arms and the one-piece turnbuckles so those will go on this afternoon.

I'm still on the V1 gears and one-way assembly so hopefully it will hold up for a while. My flying is very smooth FAI type stuff so I won't be pushing the one-way bearings too hard.

As I mentioned earlier, the lower Jesus bolt does make me a bit nervous the way it just threads into the top part of the one-way unit. But the clearance is so tight I could not fit a longer bolt with a normal sized head on it. So I think I will see about putting a locking collar on the main shaft under the upper bearing just for an added bit of safety.

I suppose it's probably possible to slot the holes in the frame at the middle bearing block to move it up a bit and fit a spacer above the top of the one-way hub to make room for a normal bolt with locknut. We shall see.

[wadders248]

The v2 turnbuckles and grips guides are much better and my only worry now is the jesus bolt, but after a good few hard flights it's been fine. I've got a 560kv motor and run mostly at 2100rpm and mad moments at 2250rpm, but I run the v2 gears.

The skids I'm using are similar to yours, which I was going to replace with something a bit more dainty. Where I fly doesn't look as smooth as your field, so the chunky skids are good for heavier landings and autos.

What sort of run times are you getting?

[trillian]

Hi again,

I have ordered the V2 front tail pulley case set from AMainhobbies in the USA because Fast lad only has the entire gearset or the V1 case unit.

I was looking around at different skids and so far the Outrage Fusion skids look close to the original Beam ones. I have a pair of red ali universal skids but they're a bit wide.

Yeah the new grip arms and one-piece turnbuckles are much better! I hope those become the standard kit parts.

I only have a few flights on it as yet but it seems between 5 and 5.30 flight times are going to be the average. I flew almost the whole pack hovering when setting up the tail gain and checking things and only drew those down to 42% after about 6 minutes so at lower headspeeds and just cruising around I suppose a bit longer is possible. I only have two pairs of 2600s and one pair of 3300s so we'll see how it goes when I get a few more flights on it. I also don't know what headspeeds it's getting so if I can get someone to have a look with an optical tacho this weekend I can get a better idea. I think maybe the setting I had for idle-1 may have been higher than I thought so I have bumped it down a bit and will be fine-tuning as I go along.

My guess is that it should be very good even at 2000 rpm because that's what I used to aim for with the .50 nitros and they were much heavier.

This weekend I'll also try it with a pair of Rail 606s and possibly standard Radix for comparison.

[Canuckhelifreak]

Hey guys,
Glad to here you are liking the Beam Avantgardes!! Sorry that there are some teething pains, like any new heli. The guys at Hatz are trying hard to sort out the weak points.
The new skids are tougher, but still might snap on a hard landing. The V2 main gear set is great and tough. Just remember to locktite the grub screws in, they lock into the main shaft for more strength and take the worry off the Jesus bolt.
Over all, the fit and strength of the Avantgarde is better than other heli's I have flown.
I run mine at 3000rpm in Idle 2 and smack it hard, I had near to 120 hard flights on mine before a ground modification session caused some damage, all the bearings and areas that wear on other helis were still tight after all that. Lol!

Here's a vid of mine in flight.

Todd rockin his Beam 600!! (4 min 2 sec)

[wadders248]

3000rpm headspeed? What pinion, motor and battery combo are you running to achieve that? Sounds way too fast to me! I've got mine around 2300rpm and that's plenty.

[RasmusDK]

Wow. Yes 3000 is very much for a 600 size. Hehe.

Mine goes with 2250, and that's more than enough :-)

Hehe

[Canuckhelifreak]

Hey Guys,
As the above video shows, no problems with 3000rpm (rotor tached)!! I switch into idle2 at the 2min mark after flying in idle 1 at 2450 headspeed. Very poppy!!
I have 3 different sets of 3300 mah packs that I run in 12s configuration. 40C, 45C, and 50C. I'm flying 620mm SWE main blades and Edge se 95mm tails.
Both helis are the same but for the speed controls. One is a CC IceV2 120HV, the other a Hobbywing 120HV. Separate 3s 2200 mah bec battery fed through the Gryphon 7075! (great bec and power delivery) Nexus HV servos all round running at 8.4v!
BeastX!! (FTW!)
Scorpion 4035-560kv motor with the 13 tooth pinion as recommended in the manual.
With this setup however, If you run it at 100%, you will get a head speed of 3200rpm...
I've dialed mine back to 95% in Idle 2 to keep a constant headspeed of 2900-3000.
Yep, they can take that all day long!! I get a 4min hard 3D flight and still only put back 2200mah avg into those 3300 mah packs. Temps are low!! Love these helis!!

[trillian]

Wow, 3000 rpm on this size heli is pretty mega. I'm coming from the .50 nitro mindset where you go for 2000 rpm governed because that's where the engine rpms need to be. I'm still getting used to the electric thing where you have so many options.

Since my last post I got in a days flying a few weeks ago and everything was working perfectly. Then I wasn't able to fly the last couple weeks as I was away on holiday.

Yeah, the Beam has had a few little niggles in the early kits but this is not at all unusual when a new model goes into production. At present I am happy to recommend it to anyone looking for a new 600 electric as the problem areas are known and can be corrected from the start. I still have Raptor skids on mine but was thinking about trying the Outrage Fusion skids as they look fairly similar and I know they are sturdy enough.

I'll probably be experimenting with going the opposite direction with the headspeed, trying lower headspeeds to see where I can run it and still do the type of smooth aero stuff I like because it's very light and can probably do quite well at lower speeds. I'd like to try some 620s as well, right now I have Rail 606s on it and they work very well but I'd be curious to see what the difference is with slightly longer blades.

Anyway, I just got back in the UK and can't wait to get out flying, just hoping the weather will behave this weekend.

[scanner62]

Hi trillian:...crikey, if these are a "few thoughts" then id hate to see ya with a head of steam up..lol,joke. Thank you for the write up both of the build and flying impressions. I did have a read of your "other" thread @ RCH (and here, but tired & need to re-read it again) and as im not registered there i couldn't see the pics but im sure it impresses.

How have you got on with the main grips you mentioned? Have they freed up in flight or still an issue for you? Now that you've had a few flights are you (or any other pilots) seeing a growing number of issues or has the bird remained solid? Im sure i'll have other questions once i get to getting mine "up"..but content to read others experience for now.

In the interim here is a vid of mine in action;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mtps...layer_embedded

Hope that works..

Can't wait.....

Thanks & Cheers
scanner62

.

[trillian]

Originally Posted by scanner62

Hi trillian:...crikey, if these are a "few thoughts" then id hate to see ya with a head of steam up..lol,joke. Thank you for the write up both of the build and flying impressions. I did have a read of your "other" thread @ RCH (and here, but tired & need to re-read it again) and as im not registered there i couldn't see the pics but im sure it impresses.

How have you got on with the main grips you mentioned? Have they freed up in flight or still an issue for you? Now that you've had a few flights are you (or any other pilots) seeing a growing number of issues or has the bird remained solid? Im sure i'll have other questions once i get to getting mine "up"..but content to read others experience for now.


Hope that works..

Can't wait.....

Thanks & Cheers
scanner62

.

I didn't have a problem with the grips it's just that in the build the bearings were already installed but I could not see if they were greased and had not seen anything explaining about this. I did put a bit of grease in anyway but just trust that they were indeed greased at the factory. I have checked them several times and they have been fine, totally smooth not at all stiff or notchy etc.

I think my V2 one-way top hub has arrived from AMain while I was away as there was a card from the Post Office when I got back but so far the V1 one-way and gears are working OK. If we have decent weather I'll get in some more flights this weekend.

[scanner62]

Hey trillian; thanks again for the reply, so its sounding like aside from the initial glitches these things are holding rock solid then?
Im enjoying the idea of "no bling required" so it will be a joy to own.

Thanks & cheers

[trillian]

Originally Posted by scanner62

Hey trillian; thanks again for the reply, so its sounding like aside from the initial glitches these things are holding rock solid then?
Im enjoying the idea of "no bling required" so it will be a joy to own.

Thanks & cheers

Indeed, the Beam is already blinged everywhere you would want. The rotorhead is very stylishly designed and basically it's all ali and carbon everywhere you look with various red anodised accents so it has a very classy look to it.

Just as a guess, one possible reason that it feels so precise in flight might be partly due to how much overlap there is with the main rotor hub. The main shaft fits way up into the hub and has the Jesus bolt at the top and is clamped at the bottom so it's very rigid. The only flex that can happen is between the bottom of the hub and the upper bearing block (and perhaps to a lesser degree between the upper and middle bearing blocks but we're talking microscopic to nil).

[trillian]

After more flights this past weekend everything is still working as it should. I got the new top hub bit from AMain hobbies so I have the V2 gears and one-way unit back in.

After asking some questions on the Kontronik optimum throttle settings it seems I have been running mine a bit high in terms of governor headroom. So I'll try bumping it down a bit next time out and see how it flies more around the 2100 headspeed range (apparently about 60% in the TX is where the Kontronik gov is able to work best).

I have ordered some 620mm blades to try and have also ordered some Outrage Fusion skids as I did like the shape of the original skids and would also like some a bit narrower than the Raptor skids on it now.

Everyone seems impressed with the way it looks on the ground and in the air and it is becoming my 'everyday' heli.

On Monday we had some pretty strong winds, I would guess 15mph or so with gusts to 30 ish and I was able to just ignore the wind and fly almost as if it wasn't there. I did notice some extra power drain though as I suppose the FBL unit is working overtime in wind like that, so one pair of packs came down with a bit less safety margin than I would like but they're OK.

I was reading somwhere, and I think it may have been on RR, someone was saying they thought the Beam felt like it gave them extra time to think, more 'hang time' in the air. I thought this as well on my very first flights, it feels like a small .90 due (I guess) to the light weight / low disc loading. Maybe it's partly psychological though, when I fly .90s I think I can feel the mass of it whereas with the Beam you get that floaty effect but not the feeling of mass you have with a .90. (I still love .90s, I just don't always want to lug one around).

[scanner62]

Hey thanks for the update trillian; glad to hear your getting more joy from your AvantGarde, mine will be here early next week now as it was only sent today(fri). The owner was still pulling it down to the basics before he could send it, but now its on its way to me!!!!!

WOOHOOO!!!!

Sounds like those conservative figures in the Tx were dead on then according to your ESC specifics, now i know. Sounds really solid performer in the wind (ooooo i likeeeee) and let us know how those bigger blades (which ones?) go, as i have 615's on mine already so be nice for comparison.

Not surprised (but happy for you) that it gets positive remarks wherever it is sky or ground, they just look sweeeet. Im also thinking of doing a custom paint canopy for mine as well, but not a priority (least till the 1st dirt bite haha) just to give a personal look.

Keep in touch with upgrades and KEEP it in the AIR!!!!...........cheers

Regards
scanner62

[trillian]

'Good news Scanner, you'll be getting yours soon :-)

The blades I'm trying are Thundertiger 620s, they are not 'FBL' blades so it will be interesting to see how they compare to the Rails as they are a little longer but the spanwise C of G should be further inboard (my hope is that they are still really stable in FF flight but just as snappy on flips and rolls etc.) They are all black carbon weave with a glossy outer coat and look really really nice.

I have now fitted some Outrage Fusion skids but they're a bit lower and I may need to put some spacers and longer bolts in back to get the tail a bit more off the ground.

[scanner62]

Those TT 620's sound good, let us know how the non-FBL's perform. Beyond that, if your looking for larger disc, you may wanna think about the Gryphons @ 615mm and FBL AFIK.
I like a low squat stance (re LG) but worry over tail strike lol. Im thinking i may go for some Gorilla skids eventually when i have to replace the originals. Guess for you tho, you could put a 700 tail fin on? or are they the same as the 600 for length?

All good, keep it in the air and let us know your ongoing testing with new fitments.

Many thanks

scanner62

[trillian]

Originally Posted by scanner62

Those TT 620's sound good, let us know how the non-FBL's perform. Beyond that, if your looking for larger disc, you may wanna think about the Gryphons @ 615mm and FBL AFIK.
I like a low squat stance (re LG) but worry over tail strike lol. Im thinking i may go for some Gorilla skids eventually when i have to replace the originals. Guess for you tho, you could put a 700 tail fin on? or are they the same as the 600 for length?

All good, keep it in the air and let us know your ongoing testing with new fitments.

Many thanks

scanner62

Well I did a couple flights with the TT 620s and although they are slightly longer than the Rails they are about 10 grams lighter and I suspect the C of G is further inward as well although I have not compared them. So they are very poppy but to get the same 'locked in' feel I'd probably need to up the swash gain, or at least that's what it feels like. It was a bit windy today as well so in calm conditions they would just feel really punchy but in the wind the Rails felt better in general so I'm quite happy to just fly with the Rails for now. One of these days I'll try some Edge 600s but I don't really expect them to be much different.

Anyway, I'm still digging the Beam :-) Regarding the vertical fin, the stock fin is a good length, it extends beyond the tail blades so unless the grass is quite high you won't end up with the tail blades hitting the ground. The Outrage skids would probably be fine without any spacers really.

[scanner62]

Hey trillian; good reporting there. What were you originally looking for with the size experiment? Would the 615-620 blades still be a viable option for you if they were FBL instead? Just wondering if they might have a little more weight to assist with that "floaty" feel?

As a newstart novice i don't believe i could tell the difference initially, so i will "retire" the good Gryphons to begin with and just use "el cheapo" blades till i get some hours up and crashes down...and hopefully no crash's from said blades. lol

Regards