Copycat 500 build

[Oldladypilot]

Originally Posted by oliverdots

Thanks for that Luke. Look forward to your impressions on and after the build.

And OLP, yes ya do

Once I move out, I am looking for a long term project, this looks a good'n.

OD, I think Luke's suggestion may be a great option. Good support from a seller/parts supplier is so important.
Use our experiences to your best advantage.

[Ironrotor]

Question:

The HK 70/80A ESCBEC has all black (3) wires to the motor and the Turnigy H1600KV motor has all black (3) wires to the ESC. I am used to these being color coded; can anyone tell me how to identify which wire connects to which?

I probably wont be able to work on the build until next weekend but any help would be appreciated.

Build Update:

Did a some more of the build late last night; centered the servos, installed Motor/ESC/Head. The Orange RX and Remote seem to work well with DX6i, had to bind two times then all was good; we will see how things play out. Observation: the sliders for the rudder control rod seem too short, bends the rod; anyone else agree?

Couldnt resist I put the canopy and blades on just for a quick look; I like it!!

[Luke Warmwater]

It's 3 phase, so it doesn't matter. If the motor turns the wrong way, just swap any two wires.

[Ironrotor]

Originally Posted by Luke Warmwater

It's 3 phase, so it doesn't matter. If the motor turns the wrong way, just swap any two wires.

Luke,
Awesome, I was not sure about it. Thanks for help!

[Luke Warmwater]

It stumped me on my first 450 build!

[Oldladypilot]

Originally Posted by Ironrotor

Question:

The HK 70/80A ESCBEC has all black (3) wires to the motor and the Turnigy H1600KV motor has all black (3) wires to the ESC. I am used to these being color coded; can anyone tell me how to identify which wire connects to which?

I probably wont be able to work on the build until next weekend but any help would be appreciated.

Build Update:

Did a some more of the build late last night; centered the servos, installed Motor/ESC/Head. The Orange RX and Remote seem to work well with DX6i, had to bind two times then all was good; we will see how things play out. Observation: the sliders for the rudder control rod seem too short, bends the rod; anyone else agree?

Couldnt resist I put the canopy and blades on just for a quick look; I like it!!

It looks nice IR I really like the canopy.

Once you have your motor turning the correct way, you can mark the wires with colored heat shrink so you'll always have them hooked up correctly after unplugging them.

Regarding the tail control rod bending: It's hard to tell for sure from the pictures, but it looks like you have the rod connecting to your servo arm on the bottom side. Move it on top, beneath the boom and the rod should be level.
I use a round servo "arm" on mine, but any arm that gives you free movement below the tail boom will work just as well.

[JettaManDan]

i spaced out the sliders till they seemed to hold the rod the right way and let it move freely..then i drilled small holes in them and use pointy screw to fix them to the boom...holds them in place well and gives the rod free movement....they way i did it was look down from the tail to the servo..and make the path as straight as i could with how the servo was rotated orientation wise to the boom...works good for me...

[Ironrotor]

It is hard to see in the pic but the ball is on top of the wheel arm. A larger wheel might help, minor issue at this time. I will work on it soon.

Thanks for input great ideas from everybody.

[Oldladypilot]

Originally Posted by Ironrotor

It is hard to see in the pic but the ball is on top of the wheel arm. A larger wheel might help, minor issue at this time. I will work on it soon.

Thanks for input great ideas from everybody.

IR, I had looked at it again and figured it was.
I think JMD's suggestion is a good one and you may have to swing your tail servo mount a little to get the rod level and as straight as possible down the length of the boom.
As you said though, it's a minor issue.

[JettaManDan]

Originally Posted by Oldladypilot

IR, I had looked at it again and figured it was.
I think JMD's suggestion is a good one and you may have to swing your tail servo mount a little to get the rod level and as straight as possible down the length of the boom.
As you said though, it's a minor issue.

exactly..swing the mount and play with the servo arm to see what gives you the straightest path possible..then you won't have any binding issues....

[Oldladypilot]

All right guys, I'm about ready to pull my hair out by the roots!
What's up with this thing!
At about 75% throttle, (shouldn't it be lifting off before then?), it starts wagging the tail.

JMD, I'm using your tx settings, I know that has nothing to do with the tail wagging but at what % throttle should I see it begin to lift off? It wouldn't have flown right anyway.....just wondering.

Can anybody give me an idea where to look? I realize it could be the gyro but what? It was in HH mode, delay at 0, limit around halfway.

HK 500 tail wag.mov (1 min 1 sec)

[carguy4471]

My first thought is too high a gain value on the gyro. Try backing it off by 10, spool it up again, and continue till the wag goes away or you hit 0 gain. If you hit zero, it's not the gain. If it stops wagging, increase the gain till it wags, then back off a couple percent.

As far as hover goes, make sure your pitch curve is linear above half stick from 50 percent to 100 percent throttle. Then, check that your pitch is linear above half stick from 0 degrees to 10 or 12 degrees. This will have you in a hover just over half stick.

Try these and let us know. Another video would be great.



Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Steemo]

+1

I am now flying a linear pitch curve with 0° at centre stick(after much harassment from the instructor at my club), so I am hovering around 3/4 stick. It all depends on how you have it set.

Have you measured how much pitch you are getting from maximum and minimum collective?

[Oldladypilot]

Originally Posted by Steemo

+1

I am now flying a linear pitch curve with 0° at centre stick(after much harassment from the instructor at my club), so I am hovering around 3/4 stick. It all depends on how you have it set.

Have you measured how much pitch you are getting from maximum and minimum collective?

8% max
3% min

[Luke Warmwater]

Originally Posted by Oldladypilot

All right guys, I'm about ready to pull my hair out by the roots!
What's up with this thing!
At about 75% throttle, (shouldn't it be lifting off before then?), it starts wagging the tail.

JMD, I'm using your tx settings, I know that has nothing to do with the tail wagging but at what % throttle should I see it begin to lift off? It wouldn't have flown right anyway.....just wondering.

Can anybody give me an idea where to look? I realize it could be the gyro but what? It was in HH mode, delay at 0, limit around halfway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf2YW...ature=youtu.be

We could be right back at the low head speed thing again! The speed of your tail is directly related to headspeed; low headspeed = low tail speed. If the tail isn't going fast enough, it won't have enough authority, so the gyro will start working to correct, won't get anywhere as the tailspeed is too low, so it over corrects and wagging kicks in. It is effectively mechanical gain that you are adding, just like if the ball link on the tail servo is too far out.

Really, CP helis need high headspeed. The only real variation in throttle should be to counter the increased drag from putting pitch on the blades, which then keeps headspeed constant

[Luke Warmwater]

Originally Posted by Oldladypilot

8% max
3% min

??

You should have some negative pitch on there, even on a normal curve! If I understand those values, you only have a pitch change range of 5 degs (3 dges to 8 degs)! 3 degs as a minimum is pretty near flying pitch!

[Oldladypilot]

Originally Posted by Luke Warmwater

We could be right back at the low head speed thing again! The speed of your tail is directly related to headspeed; low headspeed = low tail speed. If the tail isn't going fast enough, it won't have enough authority, so the gyro will start working to correct, won't get anywhere as the tailspeed is too low, so it over corrects and wagging kicks in. It is effectively mechanical gain that you are adding, just like if the ball link on the tail servo is too far out.

Really, CP helis need high headspeed. The only real variation in throttle should be to counter the increased drag from putting pitch on the blades, which then keeps headspeed constant

So I need to change my throttle curve?

Originally Posted by Luke Warmwater

??

You should have some negative pitch on there, even on a normal curve! If I understand those values, you only have a pitch change range of 5 degs (3 dges to 8 degs)! 3 degs as a minimum is pretty near flying pitch!

I'm watching Bob's head set up video again right now. I have +60 for pitch in my swash mix...why am I getting so little pitch then?

[Steemo]

you have to do the measurements in a flight mode where the pitch curve is linear 0 - 100%
if you are doing it where you have already altered your pitch curve you will get messed up results.

Ideally you want the head set up to give 12+ and 12-
then you can limit how much of that you use through your pitch curve if you want. so if you only want 9+ and 3- then you would set your curve to 37.5 - 44 - 50 - 69 - 87.5

[Oldladypilot]

Originally Posted by Steemo

you have to do the measurements in a flight mode where the pitch curve is linear 0 - 100%
if you are doing it where you have already altered your pitch curve you will get messed up results.

Ideally you want the head set up to give 12+ and 12-
then you can limit how much of that you use through your pitch curve if you want. so if you only want 9+ and 3- then you would set your curve to 37.5 - 44 - 50 - 69 - 87.5

I have my throttle and pitch curves set linear. 0 to 100. Bob's video shows setting all the links with the collective at 50%, so that's what I'm working on right now.

I'll try adjusting the gain as carguy suggested and see what Luke says about the throttle curve.

[Steemo]

Originally Posted by Luke Warmwater

Really, CP helis need high headspeed. The only real variation in throttle should be to counter the increased drag from putting pitch on the blades, which then keeps headspeed constant

Yep, constant head speed is the goal with CP helis. don't matter if you are hovering, doin slow circuits, FFF, Sport aerobatics, mild 3d or rip your face off stick banging 3d.

If your motor has enough torque you can run a flat throttle curve and it won't bother the head speed too much under high pitch load.

Try running your normal pitch curve with a steep incline to the head speed you want from low stick to your 0 pitch point then flatten it out. here's an example with linear pitch curve and a throttle curve going from 0 - 75% then flattening out.