Lockout/Brownout Problems - Static is a #1 issue

[ov10mech]

Wrong thread - delete me.

[BobOD]

I just ran across this information from the Gates Company.

I'm wondering if the reason everyone has been switching back to an outdated design is because a bunch of belts have been manufactured which aren't as conductive as they should be. I have been flying a belted setup (non-Align) 500 heli for a year or two without issue...and no anti-static measures ever taken. Also, 450 and 600 didn't seem to have the issue. It's just a theory, I've not tested an align belt and not sure if it hasn't been corrected. This doesn't seem to be such an issue these days...even with belt drives.

Also, to those who are fooled into thinking the belt is less efficient because it feels like more resistance while turning slowly, there happens to be a graph in the right column which explains the truth pretty well. Very efficient at operating speed.

I thought this was interesting so thought I'd share it.

Bob

[jared_of_atlanta]

Interesting about effeciency. What about efficiency when doing an auto rotation or hard tail movements. I think the reason pilots go with torque tube over belt is because it feels stronger, tighter, more connected - not just because they think the belt is less efficient.

[BobOD]

Originally Posted by jared_of_atlanta

Interesting about effeciency. What about efficiency when doing an auto rotation or hard tail movements. I think the reason pilots go with torque tube over belt is because it feels stronger, tighter, more connected - not just because they think the belt is less efficient.

It would mean no appreciable difference until the heli has spooled down to the point where there is very little power left...after it's on the ground from my experience.

[drumgod007]

Ok - im getting ready to buy a Rex 500. What is the solution to this ESD problem? This thread is HUGE and i dont have the time to read the entire thing... Someone Please help me out here. (I think the Rex 500 ESP comes with the gear driven tail system, vs. the belt driven system) Does Rex 500 ESP have this issue, or is it just the CF and GF editions???

[RCSavager]

There are no esd issues with the ESP.

[fireup]

I updated the first post for current solutions...

Static build up and discharge from belt/boom

Solutions:
- Ground boom and pulley to frame (see bob's #3 post on how to do this)

- or Use torque tube instead of belt drive

- or spray/apply Graphite 33 or silicon oil to belt on a regular basis

[hawkins221]

Originally Posted by hawkins221

and it works really good my whole frame and boom and tail is connected to the neg from the esc with a risistor in between!!

again

[K2Freak]

RCSavager,

Not sure where you got this info, but I don't think it was from testing. I have an ESP and I have been fighting ESD from day one. I silicon lubed the main gears, grounded the ESC and tail, added a separate BEC, and still had to switch to a non SMM type gyro (I'm a little out of my league with gyro internals - but I know the one I started with could not beat the fields generated by the chopper).

Get a hold of one of those static discharge detectors like in this video and check it for yourself:

Trex 500 ESD Anti-static Spray (3 min 46 sec)

...my 2 cents.

[Mon_t]

I've been flying my 500GF since September last year with the grounding mods upon construction and have not had an issue with esd yet
My gyro is mounted on the bottom tray, just be sure to keep the receiver antennas away from the gears to prevent it arcing to the antenna.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by fireup

I updated the first post for current solutions...

+1

Been flying mine with the boom grounding mod for a year, and then a torque tube for the last few months without problems.

Rick

[JackdaWack]

Originally Posted by sacolvin

RCSavager,

Not sure where you got this info, but I don't think it was from testing. I have an ESP and I have been fighting ESD from day one. I silicon lubed the main gears, grounded the ESC and tail, added a separate BEC, and still had to switch to a non SMM type gyro (I'm a little out of my league with gyro internals - but I know the one I started with could not beat the fields generated by the chopper).

Get a hold of one of those static discharge detectors like in this video and check it for yourself:

YouTube - Trex 500 ESD Anti-static Spray

...my 2 cents.

you shouldn't have any where near the amount of static build up with a TT that the belt creates, The belt is the main contributor to the whole problem, and grounding your tail with a TT isnt going to do little. The static build up if any is coming from something, if you dont have a belt and are dealing with esd i dunno what to say.
I myself have had no preventative care and 0 problems related. All heli's will show signs of static, the main blades alone rubbing with ozone at high speeds would create some static, like rubbing your feet on a carpet, but it doesnt seem to be enough to build up and cause a problem

[RCSavager]

Originally Posted by JackdaWack

you shouldn't have any where near the amount of static build up with a TT that the belt creates, The belt is the main contributor to the whole problem, and grounding your tail with a TT isnt going to do much of anything. The static build up if any is coming from something, if you dont have a belt and are dealing with esd i dunno what to say.
I myself have had no preventative care and 0 problems related.

+10

I live in Phoenix, AZ, USA, home of 115F temperatures and down to 10% humidity. If static was ANY factor I live in a place that would make it unbearable and dangerous. My TT setup using Futaba electronics has never produced any issue what-so-ever. I've never even heard of someone with my kind of setup experiencing issues. Every day I fly my 500ESP is a "test"ament to what it does and doesn't experience. And ESD issues isn't one of them.

But of course, your mileage may vary with other radios and or models of bird.

[abyorth]

Hey guys, from what I have been reading and brownout issues of my own I think it has more to do with the Combo ESC/BEC and something in your system pulling too much juice, like a servo going bad or binding. I was having terrible brownout issues and when I put a seperate BEC on my heli all the problems went away. A couple things I have learned about the electronics since I have been flying.
Get a watt meter and see what your system is using for power, buy a ESC that is 5-10 amps more than your reading. Use a seperate BEC, they are cheap and handle the power much better. Make sure you don't have any binding issues or servos buzzing. They can draw lots of juice and cause issues. If your reciever ever resets I would say you have a voltage problem somewhere in your system. Does your reciever have a voltage problem indicator. I know that the spectrum recievers light will flash, indicating that there was a problem during flight. Check these out asap. You can also give your heli a rub down with a dryer sheet. They eliminate static very well and leave you bird smelling fresh. Hope some of this is helpful.
Andrew

[bekrc]

I just completed the grounding mod. I used .025" soldering wick. It conforms good and small holes can be drilled for routing. Be carefull when you press in the bearings not to cut it. Press them in even. Used small T pins hooked to small jumpers then to my fluke to test continuity. Got it outer race to outer race. My bearings dont read at all inner race to outer.

I also notice in the post that alot of folks ground for belt clearance at the boom block. I also did this. I also removed the whole tail from the frame and split the tail rotor case. Wire tied the side with the tab to hold it to the boom. I tensioned the belt then looked down the boom from the tail rotor end and found the belt rubbing where it exits the metal boom. This tends do get worse if you load the belt a little. The stiff belt appears to still have some slight twist at the exit. I simulated this with a pair of pencils and a rubber band. The rubber band lays nice and flat as you put the 90 degree turn and also as you tighten it the twist migrates toward the center. This belt appears to stiff compared to my other helis. I also think I got a rub at the twist on down the boom.

So my question is what to do about this? Does the metal tail case take care of these problems. Anyone split the metal case like I did the stock one and looked at the clearance???

[Krusty Blade]

I have been flying my TREX 500 (belt driven) without any mods and there has been no problems at all.

[Philup]

This is somewhat interesting.
Seems as though most of the static discharge (not all) is coming from the main gears!

I was simply going through the posts on this thread as I have the TT but was actually considering taking a step back to the belt drive. I'm rather new to this and I've had some unfortunate hard landings (even with training gear on) and have so far stripped all of the front and rear TT gears TWICE! Of course this is admittedly due to my ineptness but I'm a bit tired of replacing and spending money on gears. Nothing against the TT but I thought I might possibly go with the belt drive until I become more experienced in flying.

Trex 500 * NO ESD * Static Solution (1 min 43 sec)

Trex 500 ESD Anti-static Spray (3 min 46 sec)

~Phil~

[RCSavager]

A picture is worth a thousand words, a video is priceless. Well played.

[ChasHeliCop]

Well, since you found my old videos, I will dig up my old Mod Thread,...... I haven't had a problem since.... still flying with a belt. .........all pics and videos are in this post.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=81808


Hope this helps,

Chas

[Philup]

I assume then that there is always static in the main gears even with a TT?
Just ordered a Greenlee AC Voltage Detector. For the small price what the hell.

~Phil~