Maidened mine today and I love it already. Few questions though

[Teeyo]

When I landed my motor was way hot. So hot that I couldn't touch it for any length of time before it hurt my fingers. I'm wondering if maybe my belt is too tight near the motor which could be causing too much resistance? Are you guys running the motor tension on the looser side? Or maybe it's my esc settings? I'm running the included motor and yge60a.

My settings in yge:

Timing: 6 deg
Brake: off
cut off type accutype: Lipo
cut off voltage: 2.4-3.1
Cells: 6
Startup speed: Heli fast
PWM Frequency: 8kHz
Startup power: auto 1-32%

Secondly, I'm using a glacier 45c 3300mah pack and I can't get the canopy on no matter how hard I try. How do you guys do it?

[para5063]

I have my timing at 18 degrees, cut-off voltage at 3.4, start up heli middle, GovStore and Active freewheeling. PWM is 9 kHz, and start up at 4% - I set my flight timer to 4 Minutes that way I end up with about 35-45% of my battery left.

If you're using those batteries, look at getting the Logo 400 canopy.

[BHChieftain]

I'm also using 18 degrees timing on the MSH/Scorpion motor.

Note, the motor does run on the hot side! I've noticed a big sensitivity with ambient air temperature. When I run on a hot day, boy the motor gets hot. When I run in the cool mornings, I can hold it no problem.

Chief

[dr dremel]

Originally Posted by Teeyo

Secondly, I'm using a glacier 45c 3300mah pack and I can't get the canopy on no matter how hard I try. How do you guys do it?

Have you moved the canopy posts? Like in this thread:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=624761

Re belt tension: Difficult to describe via internet, but it does not need to be super tight. You can try loosening it up and see if it helps. You´ll find the "sweet spot".

More PWM value should also decrease motor temp (at least in theory), but the esc has to work harder. I would not go above 9kHz with the 60A YGE.

[Teeyo]

Cool thanks guys.

I changed my settings to 18* timing and 9khz pwm and also loosened up the belt tension near the motor.

The motor doesn't seem as hot anymore but it's still hotter than what I'm used to on my other helis. I will take your word for it that the motor just likes to run hot since I loosened belt tension and changed settings and it's still pretty hot.

I put in 2 flights on it today and man, this is one fun bird.

Photo from today

[osuflyer23]

I have moved the canopy posts and I am running the exact same glacier packs with no issue. It is a little tight but it fits.

[Teeyo]

I got 3 flights in today and man, that motor gets cooking. Can't touch it for more than a few seconds without getting burnt. Is something wrong here or is it normal to be this scorching hot?

Originally Posted by osuflyer23

I have moved the canopy posts and I am running the exact same glacier packs with no issue. It is a little tight but it fits.

Are you sure you have the 45c 3300 packs? I moved the canopy posts forward and still can't get the canopy on fully without damaging it. I have only been able to get one side on the canopy post and just flying it like that. The canopy is a little cockeyed this way but it's my only choice.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ye, the stock motors get hot! I changed to a Turnigy motor from HK. Real Cheap cost, but not cheap performance. Still gets warm, but not like the stock motor and same power. I also run Gens Ace 45C 3300 on my Protos. They fit in the Canomod Canopy. Not sure about stock one.

[dr dremel]

Also what might be (subjectively) hot for one person, might be acceptable for another. From the Scorpion website:

"The wire we use to wind the stators is rated to 180 degrees C (356 F), so it can take the heat and keep on performing."

And the magnets in Scorpion motors are rated for taking 150 deg C (302 F) without damage.

So as long as can put your finger on it at all I think you´d be safe.

But it´s never wrong to asses if there is drag in your drivetrain. How long do your blades turn when spooling down? What HS/TC? What was the ambient temp?

[kavic5150]

Teeyo have you considered a 14t pinion? Might help reduce those motor temps a bit.

[M&P_Hooligan]

raising your timing and lowering your pwm will make your motor get hot also

[DoubleCH]

My stock 880 motor runs hot at 75C at the windings (IR temp gun reading) in 25C ambient with 13T/20T/470mm/2400HS quite hard flying (4min discharge to 2000). Same setup with 14T gets even hotter. This motor runs hotter than comparable 500-size heli motors because this runs low speed with high pole count.

[Teeyo]

Originally Posted by dr dremel

But it´s never wrong to asses if there is drag in your drivetrain. How long do your blades turn when spooling down? What HS/TC? What was the ambient temp?

I guess you're right. If I can touch it at all, it's probably fine.

My blades don't spin for very long after hitting TH but I don't think my belt tension is too tight. It feels good IMO but I'm not sure where it should be. According to manual with moderate pressure the belt should move between 2-3mm. I think mine is looser or close to that.

I'm running flat 90% throttle on stock included pinion (I think 15T) and 425 mm blades on stretch kit.

Ambient temp has been 80-90 degrees F lately so that doesn't help.

Originally Posted by kavic5150

Teeyo have you considered a 14t pinion? Might help reduce those motor temps a bit.

I like the pop with this 15T pinion so haven't thought about it much. This things got some power.

Originally Posted by M&P_Hooligan

raising your timing and lowering your pwm will make your motor get hot also

I raised both to 18* and 9 pwm respectively according to what others here mentioned.

I'm coming to terms that this motor just likes to run hot and trying not to worry about it.

I will try to get a video of my heli spooling down to see what you guys think of spool down time.

[BHChieftain]

I wonder if the heat is one of the reasons Scorpion recommends oiling the motor bearings every 10 flights or so....

Chief

[dr dremel]

Originally Posted by Teeyo

My blades don't spin for very long after hitting TH but I don't think my belt tension is too tight. It feels good IMO but I'm not sure where it should be. According to manual with moderate pressure the belt should move between 2-3mm. I think mine is looser or close to that.

I'm running flat 90% throttle on stock included pinion (I think 15T) and 425 mm blades on stretch kit.

Ambient temp has been 80-90 degrees F lately so that doesn't help.

I like the pop with this 15T pinion so haven't thought about it much. This things got some power.

I raised both to 18* and 9 pwm respectively according to what others here mentioned.

Tension sounds reasonable to me. I guess I´m running the belt a bit tighter on the motor side. I´m running just 70% TC mostly, so that definitely contributes to a cooler running motor, Scorpion or not. Ambient also was not as high this year at least. Spool down takes maybe 5-6 sec for me when zeroing pitch after landing. Also your flight times would suffer noticeably if there would be too much drag.

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

I wonder if the heat is one of the reasons Scorpion recommends oiling the motor bearings every 10 flights or so....

Chief

I think it's more of a cover-the-butt recommendation. It's not just Scorpion motors that has special oiling requirement. If anything, Scorpion/Hyperion, and other high-end motors like the KDE XFs run oversize bearing on the pinion end and is therefore more robust and should be less likely to fail than other motors without oiling. My Hyperion 2213-14 which is the same as the Scorpion 2213-14 for my Blade 300X runs super cool barely any temperature above ambient even when pushed hard and they still recommend oiling every 6 flights or so.

[HarryR]

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

I wonder if the heat is one of the reasons Scorpion recommends oiling the motor bearings every 10 flights or so....

Chief

This is an interesting issue. You might cook the motor if the oil gets too hot and bakes onto the metal surfaces, on the other hand if the motor does not get to cooking the oil , you might get some advantage of oiling. I try to just get the shaft(s) covered with a light oil coating but that's about it.

[kavic5150]

I wonder if a motor rewind might be in order. It might be overkill, but since your flying is at the higher end of the RPM range it could be beneficial.

One of the things that Dan from GoBrushless.com did when he rewound my motor was open the motor gap a bit to allow for slightly more cooling. I'm not sure what the going rate is these days but it was a good deal when I had it done.

[DoubleCH]

I don't think rewind helps. Main problem is that pinion needs to contain OWB which means it can't go much smaller which means motor needs to run low kV which means it'll have to be at least 10-pole. Both low kV and high pole count are receipe for higher running temp.

I have my motor gap opened up as much as possible but it didn't make much difference if any.

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