600e Pro Tail Blow Outs

[col]

How can this ratio be when the pro uses the same gearsets as its predecessors? what has changed to alter the tail gear ratio, still uses the same maingear teething and umbrella gears and same final drive gears..
i think the problem is in a poor setup, theres many vids now with 95mm's and hard 3D at 2200 rpm.

[TdB]

Specifications (T-REX 600E PRO):

• Height: 353mm
• Width: 210mm
• Main Blade Length: 600mm
• Main Rotor Diameter: 1347mm (53.03 in)
• Tail Rotor Diameter: 260mm
• Motor Drive Gear:13T
• Main Drive Gear:112T
• Autorotation Tail Drive Gear: 131T
• Tail Drive Gear: 34T
• Drive Gear Ratio: 1:8.61:3.85
• Weight(With Motor): 2350g (5.18 lbs)

Specifications (T-REX 600ESP):

• Length: 1600mm
• Height: 400mm
• Main blade length: 600mm
• Main rotor diameter: 1350mm
• Tail rotor: 240mm
• Motor drive gear: 14T (15T optional)
• Main drive gear: 170T
• Autorotation tail drive gear: 180T
• Tail drive gear: 40T
• Drive gear ratio: 1:12.14:4.5/1:11.33:4.5
• Empty weight: 2450g
• Flying weight: 3300g

[col]

ok fair point, so can we use the older gearsets?

[ziper_it]

Provided that I'm not able to elaborate in details all the technical discussions done here, I want to highlight that the fact that (if) Align designed an heli for specific performances, and thus for a certain HS, it doesn't mean they have to make sure it also runs stock at lower HS.

Arguments in this thread are similar to "I bought a fighter but I cannot land it at 60 knots, the manufacturer did a mistake!"

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by ziper_it

Provided that I'm not able to elaborate in details all the technical discussions done here, I want to highlight that the fact that (if) Align designed an heli for specific performances, and thus for a certain HS, it doesn't mean they have to make sure it also runs stock at lower HS.

Arguments in this thread are similar to "I bought a fighter but I cannot land it at 60 knots, the manufacturer did a mistake!"

No disrespect ziper, but I think if you had any experience with 600 class machines you would not say this. 2200-2250 is already INSANE performance. 2500 is just mentally ill.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by ccjohn98

here for the video that Align provided. They have also post this video on their facebook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqvhGiiC53c

This model in the video is clearly showing from how it set up and fly with the 2200 headspeed and 95mm tailblades. Looks there is no problem on its tail and still able to do hard 3Ds.

Accounting to what Align told, people who have the problem on the tail should check if the tail is at the neutral point and also the batteries you use.

Personally I believe a company like Align should have tested everything that including in the package and make sure everything work to each other. So I never put other brand's spare parts on my Trex. Who knows if they are working on my Trex or not.

This video was cross posted. My response is here: https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...&postcount=476

I think the h/s in the video is likely >2350. But I hope I'm wrong and the 3GX has magic abilities to compensate for a 15% loss in tail thrust. Not likely. And they still sell a $590 FBL version with no 3gx.

[AlignCorp]

Hello Guys,

I've read a few of your concerns and or questions. I would like to point out that on page 31 of your Manual it clearly states that at 85% you will be at 2500 head spead. This helicopter was designed to be a performance machine.

So at 0 degrees no load 85% Throttle your at 2500 head speed.
At 0 degrees no load 100% Throttle your at 2720 head speed.
At a full 12+/- pitch you will be at 2470 head speed so your tail is not going to blow out in the designed rotor speed paramater given in the Manual.

Should you feel that you need to run a lessor head speed then you will have a less tail authority in extreme pitch and cyclic manuvers. But if cyclic and collective are managed then it is still a good performing helicopter. Case in the video we have uploaded showing a demo flight at 2200 head speed for you viewing.

If you have any further concern please (562) 598-4700.

Best Regards,
Jeff Fassbinder

[Cheetah62]

Originally Posted by AlignCorp

So at 0 degrees no load 85% Throttle your at 2500 head speed.
At 0 degrees no load 100% Throttle your at 2720 head speed.

[raptor50luvver]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for coming on here and addressing some of these issues we are having.

I am running the V Bar on mine which performs excellent on all my other Align Helicopters,ie 600N,700N,550E and 700E.

From my experience most 600 size helicopters run around 2000 to 2200rpm on the head,in fact many main blades have warnings to not run at the speeds you say the 600E Pro was designed to operate at.

I personally have no wish to run my 600E Pro at anything over 2200rpm and i am finding that in sideways loops and fast funnels the tail simply will not hold,every other Align model i run does these moves with ease with plenty of tail authority.

So a couple of questions.

Will Align consider producing an option on the gear ratio for the tail for users that want to run slower headpseeds and also with this get better duration?

If not can you confirm 100% that if i use 105mm tailblades to give me the extra holding power for my lower headspeed,that they wont contact the main blades in high negative pitch moves and that the geartrain can cope with the extra drag and load they will produce.?

Also i must ask,why design this model to run such a high headpseed,helicopters like for example the Logo 600 running on 12s gives stunning performance at much lower headpseeds,and as such is more efficient?


I am only wanting to enjoy flying this helicopter as much as i do all my other Align models.
Many thanks

Chris

[Nko15]

Originally Posted by AlignCorp

Manual it clearly states that at 85% you will be at 2500 head spead.

So at 0 degrees no load 85% Throttle your at 2500 head speed.
At 0 degrees no load 100% Throttle your at 2720 head speed.
At a full 12+/- pitch you will be at 2470 head speed so your tail is not going to blow out in the designed rotor speed paramater given in the Manual.

Got the be (*&(@% Kidding me?!?!?!? Your own blades Arent even rated at 2200+!!!!!

And i'm NOT buying the the video. i think its fake. ''too fast for proper governing'' basicly means is that you guys put something different in there to get higher rpms..

[GB ian]

I think the statement from Align is clear that 2500rpm is needed.

So with that in mind I guess 3 minutes of flight time will be fine too.

Am I missing something?

Even with 3700 mah packs you might struggle to get 4 mins. No room for anything bigger, and counter productive to add more weight even if they did fit.

All looks very odd to me.

I must have missed something!

[GB ian]

What happened to the idea of 12S not killing batteries?

[trailblazer]

Jeff, thx for your information - but I still don´t understand your arguments for these high headspeeds.
If the new 600 was a pure FB Heli, high RPMs could be necessary for full "3D performance". But with modern FBL Units much lower headspeed will satisfy nearly every flying style.
It´s ok to be able to run these high headspeeds, but i don´t like the fact that i have to

[Dino Spadaccini]

Hello Gentleman as i stated in the title the new align 600 is a Pro version and has been design to run at higher head-speeds as stated in the manuel.

At 85% you are at 2500 giving the user allot of headroom for head-speed setup. if you decide to step down the head speed you are lowing the total performance of the heli IE the pitch and cyclic response plus tail authority. At lower head speeds you will need to mange your collective and cyclic input to maintain good control over your personal setup. As you can see Align Corp has shown you all via the video that the PRO 600 flies great and can 3d all day long it comes down to the user and personal setup.

I must point out that anyone flying a logo knows that you must pick your own pinion gear to get the final ratio and head speed were the enduser is happy,Align went one step further to hand you an out of the box PRO heli pushed to its limits by Alan to make sure that the PRO version was all that and more. Now i see allot of you just bashing the hell out of Align for bringing a heli that is the next level of PRO performance just not right.

Once again its a Pro heli and should be flown as its states in the manuel anything less just isnt giving the heli a fare chance

Regards
Dino Spadaccini

[GB ian]

I hope my comments have not been taken out of context, as a loyal Align customer I have yet to bash anything Align.

However I personally am finding that 2200-2300 rpm is more than adequate for me.

I do have a couple of questions;

1. Would there be any issues using non Align blades at these head speeds?

2. Are there special Align blades for this 2500 rpm setup or will all Align 600 sized blades work?

Maybe one day I'll bump up my own 12S setup to 2500 rpm!

[raptor50luvver]

So what you are saying is that this model is for high end pro users only who want maximum power,short flights and hot Lipos?

Congratulations you have just alienated 95% of your loyal customers.

Also not bashing Align,all their helis i own or have owned and the new 3GX are great,i just wish they made it clear when this model came out that is was for absolute top end fliers wanting top performance and nothing less.

[GB ian]

Forgot to say...did I read earlier that 2700 at 100% is OK too?

Thats got to be some machine.

[OnTheSnap]

Dino/Jeff,
Thanks very much for taking the time to reply to our concerns. Obviously we are all used to seeing Hard 3D flown on 600mm helicopters in the 2200-2250 range. As I stated before, Jamie Robertson, Kyle Dahl, Jesse Kavros and others fly 600mm machines in XFC, 3D masters etc at 2200-2250 and are obviously getting a pro level experience out of it.

So we're obviously a bit surprised by a machine intended to run at 2500 RPM. It's just something none of us are familiar with. At least those with lots of experience dealing with this class machine.

If I wanted to run at 2500, it's unfortunate then that you went with a fixed gear ratio. I for one will not run my helicopters without a governor (I use either the Castle or vbar governor on all my machines). To do so requires sufficient overhead in the gearing. With your fixed 8.615 ratio, the max gov'd headspeed I can run with Castle is in the 2300 RPM range. So now there is a strong desire for gearing options.

Thank you very much for the video at 2200RPM. Unfortunately I think there was a governor setup error, where the gear ratio was not entered correctly. Audio analysis of the audio shows the headspeed is at ~2400-2450 RPM. Can you reshoot the video with the governor setting corrected?

Anyway, we have an easy solution for those wanting to run "XFC championship" level headspeeds. We simply have to use 105mm tail blades and raise the tail using the stock 700e landing gear in the rear. Not a very expensive modification.

From a marketing perspective, I believe I'm your target end user. Being an intermediate 3D pilot (piro 3D, smack, etc), 2250 seems like all I need to turn heads and more. I love over powered setups, with high headspeeds, and running this RPM on the pro in governed mode satisfies me completely (running 105mm tail blades). So I think you should consider modifying your future kits with a 4.5 tail gear ratio so pilots like myself do not get suprised by the gear reduction and crash the model (yes, a massive blow out caused a very bad crash for me last week).

Thanks again for the reply! Great to see you guys here.

[raptor50luvver]

Theres something that keeps bugging me here,does the flybar version ship with 105 blades as per the specs or is it an error?

●Aluminum Tail Boom X1
●600D Carbon fiber blades X1
●600MX Brushless Motor(510KV) X1
●DS610 Digital servoX3
●DS650 Digital servo X1
●GP780 Head Lock Gyro X1
●Castle ICE HV 80 Brushless ESC X1
●6A External BEC w/ 5.1V Two-way Step-down voltage regulator X1
●105mm 3K Carbon Fiber Tail Blades X1 Set


Is it only some fbl models that are getting this problem?

Would be interesting to know if Align have tested the model with any other FBL system other than the 3GX.

[Dino Spadaccini]

GB Ian you can use any type of blade you like as you know this will change the performance.

I regards to the bashing
Align Corp puts allot of pride in what they make and wether it was meant as an attack or just someone pointing there dislike there are ways of doing this so it come across the right way just my thoughts.

As for Jamie and the XFC
where you there to hear the head speed, i know jeff was as we talked about that so stating something about head speed and a person competing please have the facts.

In regards to alienating the enduser, i must disagree with you. Our goal is to bring to market something new and fresh not a recycled heli. Align Corp is always pushing the limits on design and evolution of the product line.

just a few more of my thoughts

If running 105 tails and a head speed at 2200 is what you preferrer then thats ok for you. We will send your comments off to Align and see what they have to say about gearing and tail options its up to them to make that decision for the pro 600