Raptor 90 Flybarless Head Conversions

[zole]

Originally Posted by maizor

No they make a head specially for the Raptor 90. so no new main shaft
Asked TomR about it yesterday and he hoped it would be released before or this summer

TomR have one fitted to his Raptor 90 SE.

And what about Raptor 60 V2?
Would that head fit on it?

[uragano47812]

Hello a friend want to convert his 90SE to FBL using beastx. He is able to do the parts for conversion by his own. Only one thing we need to know the distance needed from the main grip ball to the center of the head for an optimal geometry.

I read somewhere that 39mm from ball to center head and 8.5mm on ball of the servo arms are the good point. I'm right?

[ticedoff8]

Originally Posted by uragano47812

Hello a friend want to convert his 90SE to FBL using beastx. He is able to do the parts for conversion by his own. Only one thing we need to know the distance needed from the main grip ball to the center of the head for an optimal geometry.

I read somewhere that 39mm from ball to center head and 8.5mm on ball of the servo arms are the good point. I'm right?

I got 34mm.
But I eye-balled it.
I used my calipers to measure from the inner surface of the blade grip to the "eye-ball" location of the center of the "Jesus bolt" on the head-block.
The flybared control ball-link "standoff" is 26mm. Then, add the link-ball that is screwed in the end.
If I was doing this, I'd add a longer standoff screw, and then stack washers between the standoff base & the blade grip until the center of the ball looked like it was in-line with the "Jesus bolt".

[jwatts007]

The JR SG head works a treat had that on mine......

[TTRAPTOR903D]

Anyone tried the new G4 FBL head on the old school 90 ? I like the looks of that head.

Who is the best Raptor parts vendor in US?? Seems more and more vendors are moving away from TT parts, at least for the older stuff.

[carey shurley]

G4 head uses a much larger main shaft, won't fit without some sort of adapter

[Raptor Ken]

Has anyone heard anymore about the release date. Is it really coming out? Some say no???

[carey shurley]

Has anyone heard anymore about the release date. Is it really coming out? Some say no???

do you mean for the older models? Obviously the G4 is available in FBL today

[ticedoff8]

The G4 head is 15mm and will not fit the older 12mm shaft of the Raptor 90

[phillhague]

Just been messing about with my old R90 SE, head is RJX Trex 700 FBL, shortened head block ( it fitted as standard but put the maingrips higher than the standard TT set up ) and re-drilled for the 4mm head bolt, drilled and tapped new holes for 3mm clamping bolts, swash is Quick UK or is it EU now, swash to grip links are also made by Quick and seem to be a bit more substantial than TT ones. As photos show I had to mess with servo geometry to get good servo resolution for the AR7200BX, put longer balls on the outer swash for aileron, didn't like the idea of shorter ones on the inner swash as I have been trying to keep the swash to grip links as perpendicular as possible to avoid crazy angles and balls popping off. At 100% servo ATV's I have 11 degrees of positive and negative pitch, 10 degrees of right and left roll and 9 degrees of up and down elevator. All up weight with Batteries is 5.7Kg was 5.95Kg before putting the FBL set up on it. Flies great and the AR7200BX needed no tweaking at the field, using Tx settings for point "B" control behaviour on AR7200BX. Just for info motor is Scorpion 4035 - 450KV, 12 tooth pinion, 93 tooth maingear on 12S 5000Mah Lipo Batts. Also the head shake that this heli has always suffered from at certain headspeeds has gone, running at 1750 std, 1850 idle 1, 1950 idle 2

[ticedoff8]

I used an Align 3G head on #1.
On #2 I used a Align DFC head.

The 3G head is 10mm lower than the stock flybar'ed TT 3D head, and the DFC is 10mm lower than that.
I modified the Align 3G & DFC main masts to fit in the Raptor main gear.
I use the R90 swash with the 3G head, but I use the Quick UK Raptor swash for the DFC.

[phillhague]

Did the Align mainshafts require much work to get them to fit ?

[ticedoff8]

Not too much - at least I didn't think it was too bad.
1) Start with a stock Align DFC or 3G main mast
2) Grind off the ring that is welded mid-shaft. I chucked the mast up in my drill press and used a rotary grinder (Dremel with the cutoff wheel) to carefully grind the ring down so that a spare swash or main-mast bearing will slide over the location. Dress the area with a fine, flat file and then polish it with some #400 emery cloth & oil.
3) Measure 13.5mm from the bottom of the shaft and drill a new jesus bolt hole for the main gear.
4) With the main mast bearings (top & bottom) in place, slide the modified main mast into the frame. Make sure you have the locking ring in place.
5) Make sure the main gear & tail rotor drive gear are in place and add the main gear jesus bolt.
6) Tap the top of the shaft to ensure it is snug against the lower main mast bearing.
7) Slide the locking ring up so it is snug to the bottom of the top main mast bearing.
8) Use a center punch to dimple the two locking ring screw holes in the main mast. Be careful that they dimples are 180 degrees around from each other.
9) Remove the main mast. Drill and tap (3mm / .50mm) the two holes for the locking ring. I drill & tap one hole, then locate the locking ring with 1 screw and verify the 2nd dimple is in the right spot.

Note: For the DFC head, the distance from the bottom of the shaft to the new bolt hole is 21.5mm - the DFC main shaft is shorter on top but longer on the bottom.

Note: It is better to have the locking ring a little "loose" against the top bearing. If it is too loose, you can get the 12mm spacing washers for the Align Trex 700 from your local hobby shop.

I leveled the collective servo arm and collective rocker assembly (I use a digital pitch gauge as a level and eye-ball it).

I set the 3G swash-to-main-grip links as recommended by the 3G assembly instructions (I don't remember the exact length - but I could measure mine and update later).
Then, I adjust the links from the rocker to the swash such that the head is at 0-degrees pitch and 50% collective stick.

In the Flybarless controller, I set +/- 13 degrees of collective & +/- 9 degrees of cyclic. There is no binding at higher settings, but the engine (YS 91SR-3DS) doesn't like anything higher than 21 or 22 degrees of total pitch.
Makes sure you change to the inner holes on the servo arms - the new head uses MUCH less servo travel than the flybar'ed head. I went from around 18mm to 9mm (center to ball) on the arms to get to around 100% servo gain on the FBL controller.

[phillhague]

Thanks for the good info, I'll check out the Align mainshafts. As for the heads maybe the RJX flybarless one that's on the heli at present will do the job, will have to measure up and see how much lower it will go. If you look at the pics of my heli you'll see the balls have been moved in on the servo arms and the elevator link rod has been moved nearer the centre of the arm, pitch ratio was the easy one. Maybe I might put even longer Quick UK balls on the outer swash to get a bit more resolution on the servos but at present it flies ok, lowering the head is the way to go first but it is a long term project. Just one thing did the Align mainshaft drill ok or did it need special tools, like a cobalt tip or whatever.

[ticedoff8]

No problems with the drill - I used a standard high speed drill bit.

[phillhague]

Ok thanks.

[kwade]

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

No problems with the drill - I used a standard high speed drill bit.

I have a 60 size rappy that i have used your info to convert to a flybarless with the alighn dfc head but i have a question that probaly is dumb but when you done this on your 90 did your pitch marks on the heli reverse so now the negative is the positive because of the new set up.

[ticedoff8]

I can't honestly remember.
On my conversions, when the swash goes up, the pitch increases - I can't remember if it is reversed on the 3D/SE flybar'ed head.

This is how I set the throw. Maybe you can use it:
1) Level the servo arm on the collective servo - level as in "eyeball" it using a digital pitch gauge. Move the arm around until you get it close, then use sub-trim on the radio for fine tune. BUT MAKE IT LEVEL.
2) I use the push-pull upgrade on the collective - so the next step is to make sure the 2 links from the servo arm to the push-pull bellcrank are exactly the same length and the push-pull bellcrank is level (same as the servo arm). Do not readjust the subtrim to get the push-pull bellcrank level - adjust the links.
3) Even if you do not use the push-pull collective upgrade: When the servo arm is level (per the pitch gauge), make sure the collective rocker assemble is level. Again, I eyeball it. But, if you take a short straight edge, you can horizontally line up the ball on the front of the rocker (where the servo link connects) with the rocker pivot-point (center of the front ball to the center of the pivot point screw) and then set you level on the straight edge. Do not adjust the subtrim - adjust the link.
NOTE: Once the servo arm is level and the linkage is adjusted to make the rocker level - do not adjust these again.

At this point, the rocker may or may not line up with the marks on the frame - don't worry about it.

Lock in the rocker so it will stay level for the next steps.

Set you DFC head on the main mast and attach the DFC links to the swash and measure the blade pitch. If the blades are at 0-degrees, congratulations - you are done.
If they are not at 0-degrees, then you have to adjust the 4 links (2 from the elevator A-arm and 2 from the roll) to raise or lower the swash until the blades are close to 0-dgrees. Try to make sure they are all equal in length - this can be tough, but it is important.

Once the blades are at 0-degrees with the servo & collective rocker level, then you are ready to set your servo throws using the FBL controller.
I use +/- 13 degrees for collective and +/- 9 degrees for cyclic.
But, if you are using a 60 or a 70 motor, than might be too much.
I use the small servo arms on both cyclic servos and then I use the inner holes (about 8mm center to ball). This allows me to get the collective & cyclic settings I use and use about 90% servo travel.

With this setup, you will see +/- 16 or 17 degrees of mechanical collective (way too much). You adjust it down to what you need using smaller servo arms and the servo travel adjustments in the FBL controller

[carey shurley]

on the std raptor setup, the swashplate moves opposite of the pitch change

this is true on the G4 as well because the mixers work the same way

if you've done an FBL conversion where the control rods connect directly from the swashplate to the rotor blade grips, it would now work in the opposite way so you'd have to reverse the channel

[kwade]

Thanks for the help i just wated to make sure. I had converted a rappy 50 and it work well so i wanted to try this on a 60.