Interested in another jet build?

[invertmast]

Anyone interested in another turbine jet build? A friend just bought a 60% complete Kangaroo turbine jet. The airframe is built and painted, and its basically ready for equipment install and fit out. It has alot of stuff already installed, but i believe i am going to remove most if not all of it and redo it to make it a bit more cleanly.

If anyone is interested i'll do a step by step photo thread of this one as well. OH, i'm also about to start w/ the fit-out of a Comp-Arf eurosport to, so i might make this a 2-n-1 thread.

[Skiddz]

Fire away man...

Your Bandit has me saving pennies again. Another build thread might push me over the edge.

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by Skiddz

Fire away man...

Your Bandit has me saving pennies again. Another build thread might push me over the edge.

LOL... you lookin at another turbine heli, or a plank? If your wantin a turbine plank, look into the BVM Electra "T". Its $2800 "fly it now" (or add $1000 for a painted ARF) for the kit, gear, fuel tanks, turbine bypass, wheels and brakes. And i personally know someone who will build the kit to RTF, for the cost of a bare turbine kit ($1800).


If you think this one will have you saving pennies (this is the "economic" turbine build) Wait till you see the A-10 completion build i have to do. Then i will probly be getting started on a F-4 phantom repaint, and possibly an F-4 twin ducted fan to turbine conversion.

[Skiddz]

No, a plank this time...

$1800 for a build? I think I'll save the $1800 and do it myself... I mean, hell, if YOU can do it....

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by Skiddz

No, a plank this time...

$1800 for a build? I think I'll save the $1800 and do it myself... I mena, hell, if YOU can do it....

lol.. i just messin with ya on $1800. i'd give ya a better price than that

[Skiddz]

Oh, so $1700?

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by Skiddz

Oh, so $1700?

oohh come on, you know me better than that

[[X]Outlaw]

Count me in....turbine ummmmm yummy!

[Skiddz]

Originally Posted by invertmast

oohh come on, you know me better than that

Precisely why I figured $1700.

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by Skiddz

Precisely why I figured $1700.

lol.. man, that doesn't speak well of me then

[FlyJ]

Why get the BVM electra when you could get the Comp-Arf Spark. Comp-Arf and BVM used to use the same molds and i will promise you that you'll see very similar performance between the spark and the electra. The only main difference i see between Comp-Arf and BVM is the quality of the composite BVM uses is nicer. Iv got a Composite BobCat from BVM and the glass is very nice. I also have the new Comp-Arf Ultra Lightning which is the Ultra Bandit competition but the composite isn't as sturdy/stiff/thick as the BVM composite is but i doubt the performance between the two will be too different.

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by FlyJ

Why get the BVM electra when you could get the Comp-Arf Spark. Comp-Arf and BVM used to use the same molds and i will promise you that you'll see very similar performance between the spark and the electra. The only main difference i see between Comp-Arf and BVM is the quality of the composite BVM uses is nicer. Iv got a Composite BobCat from BVM and the glass is very nice. I also have the new Comp-Arf Ultra Lightning which is the Ultra Bandit competition but the composite isn't as sturdy/stiff/thick as the BVM composite is but i doubt the performance between the two will be too different.

How can the BVM electra and Comp-Arf spare "used to use" the same molds? the 2 airplanes look NOTHING alike. matter of fact, none of the BVM stuff looks like any of the comp-arf stuff.

I've got a Comp-arf Eurosport (2 right now) and a BVM bandit. And the quality between the 2 isn't even close. The comp-arf directions are HORRIBLE compared to the bvm stuff. Its not just the "quality" of the composite thats the difference between the two. Their is much more than that. I'm far from a purple fan boy, but after getting my bandit i know why BVM charges what he does.

And Comp-arf charges an arm and a leg for replacement parts. BVM isn't cheap, but they are cheaper than comp-arf.

Honestly, right now i'm thinking my next project is going to be a super cheap EDF YA Starfire on 12S.

[FlyJ]

To my knowledge the were one of the same. Are you familiar with FiberClassics? I believe that BVM and Comp-Arf split off from FiberClassics or they were producing from the same factory, and BVM became upset with the quality of the products being put out from the that factory. Maybe i was unclear but this wasn't recent, it was a while ago.

http://bvmjets.com/Pages/kits/Electra_ARF.htm
http://www.composite-arf.com.hk/ar/Product?743000

They are very similar airplanes and i have spoken to people who have flown both and say they have very similar flight characteristics.

As for the building. My BobCat had to be the worst build in the history of jets. Nothing fit and everything was warped. I do agree that Comp-Arf jets are tough to build but I had built 5 or 6 other Comp-Arf prop planes so I was perfectly aware of the time it would take to fabricate everything in the Comp-Arf. I actually do not build my own stuff, my father is and he loves to build which is why he doesn't mind CA. He loves just getting a shell and making everything inside of it. He has built enough of them that he doesn't need instructions anymore but i do agree the instructions are not as great as the BVM instructions.

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by FlyJ

To my knowledge the were one of the same. Are you familiar with FiberClassics? I believe that BVM and Comp-Arf split off from FiberClassics or they were producing from the same factory, and BVM became upset with the quality of the products being put out from the that factory. Maybe i was unclear but this wasn't recent, it was a while ago.

http://bvmjets.com/Pages/kits/Electra_ARF.htm
http://www.composite-arf.com.hk/ar/Product?743000

They are very similar airplanes and i have spoken to people who have flown both and say they have very similar flight characteristics.

As for the building. My BobCat had to be the worst build in the history of jets. Nothing fit and everything was warped. I do agree that Comp-Arf jets are tough to build but I had built 5 or 6 other Comp-Arf prop planes so I was perfectly aware of the time it would take to fabricate everything in the Comp-Arf. I actually do not build my own stuff, my father is and he loves to build which is why he doesn't mind CA. He loves just getting a shell and making everything inside of it. He has built enough of them that he doesn't need instructions anymore but i do agree the instructions are not as great as the BVM instructions.

How long have you been in this hobby? BVM and Comp-Arf / Fiberclassics are and have NEVER been "one in the same". I've been in the hobby for 18 years now, and BVM got started WAAAAYYYYY before fiber-classics/comp-arf were ever known on this side of the pond. I believe BVM jets was started in the early 1980's. I believe Fiberclassics started in 1998 and comp-arf started in 2000-2002.

So 2 airplanes from different companies can't have "similar" flight characteristics w/o being from the same company/molds? Sorry, but thats just retarded.
Have you ever seen an electra or spark up close? I've seen them both, and they aren't even close to being the same. Even visually there are differences:




Electra vs. Spark:
-2 piece built up balsa and ply wing, Spark is all composite 1 piece wing
-Very notceable An-hedral balsa/ply horizontal stab (also 2 piece), 1 piece composite an-hedral stab
-fuselage "strakes" around horizontal stab mounting area, none on the spark
-Developed around the BVM electric fan and can use the TJ100 fan. Spark is for the schubeler fan only
-Electra has a long "knife/pointed" fuselage w/ a streamlined canopy. the Spark is kind of bulgy with a bubbly canopy
-electra equipment is completely accessible via 2 hatches on the top of the plane. Spark has 1, you have to remove the wing to get to the fan and batteries
-Electra has 60" winspan, spark has 48" wingspan
-electra has 67" length, spark has 63" length
- Electra also has a balsa/ply built up removable vertical stab, where the spark is composite vertical stab and part of the fuselage and not removeable.

I find your bvm bobcat VERY hard to believe that nothing fit properly (do you have pictures of it that you can post?) Bc i have never seen a BVM product that was "warped and nothing fit" and ive built 5 different BVM products. BV is KNOWN for having high quality parts that fit as perfect as possible the first time, and if its a big enough problem that they dont fit,all you have to do is a make a phone call and they typically send you replacement parts and a return form for the faulty parts.

Sorry, but i honestly dont know where you came up with your "information" but its not correct. Its common knowledge that a "couple" of the BVM arfs are produced in china, but they go thru a rigorous QC program here before being sent off to customers.


What motor is on your bobcat? And please dont tell me its a "pusher propellor jet".

i can take photo's of 2 instruction manual pages for the Comp-Arf Eurosport and the BVM bandit i have and post each. The Bandit manual is Full of detailed written instructions and the plans are covered w/ detail views showing complex installations. The Comp-Arf has nothing, and even their templates for cutting out gear wheel openings is incorrect. I can believe not using directions on the Comp-arf products b/c they are non-existant to begin with. BVM on the other hand is the exact opposite, they give you more info than you need.

[FlyJ]

This was in no way a personal attack so please relax. I don't believe it "retarded" and that is beyond an inappropriate way to describe somebody's ideas. I had revised my statement to say that the companies were working under the same factory. I have been in this hobby for only 6 years since I'm only 17, but in no way does you having 12 more years of experience to be rude.

The BobCat has a P-80 soon to be changed to a P-120sx. 4th Picture in the left column is me.

http://bvmjets.com/HotShots/fj08/fj08.htm

And for the instructions, I only agreed to you that CA is a builder's airplane and BVM has nicer instructions. For my Bobcat though, both wing tubes were too long and too wide to fit on the plane. The canopy was warped and didn't sit right on the plane. It was an exaggeration that "nothing" fit. Im just saying i had some problems in the build.

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by FlyJ

This was in no way a personal attack so please relax. I don't believe it "retarded" and that is beyond an inappropriate way to describe somebody's ideas. I had revised my statement to say that the companies were working under the same factory. I have been in this hobby for only 6 years since I'm only 17, but in no way does you having 12 more years of experience to be rude.

The BobCat has a P-80 soon to be changed to a P-120sx. 4th Picture in the left column is me.

http://bvmjets.com/HotShots/fj08/fj08.htm

And for the instructions, I only agreed to you that CA is a builder's airplane and BVM has nicer instructions. For my Bobcat though, both wing tubes were too long and too wide to fit on the plane. The canopy was warped and didn't sit right on the plane. It was an exaggeration that "nothing" fit. Im just saying i had some problems in the build.

I didn't take it as a personal attack, but your information is vastly skewed with wrong information. How can a Company who's factory is Based in Florida, work under the same factory a company based in China? My comments may have come across as "rude" but it wasn't meant that way. I was simply correcting your false information, as its not fair for an outsider to read someones comments and overlook a company bc of false information. I never said your ideas were "retarded". I said the thought that "2 companies having similar flying airplanes, must be from the same molds" was retarded.

Comp Arf does share a model w/ another company. But its Not BVM. They share the "rookie II" with Graupner (who calls it the harpoon). So maybe you just got some of your information mixed up w/ the wrong airplane. Either way you were partly correct.

[FlyJ]

Is BVM's head of operations and sales in FL or that there actual factory?

[Pinecone]

http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/about.htm

BVM manufactures fifteen different jets in the U.S.A. and distributes a few high quality imports, for turbine and Electric VioFan power.

[FlyJ]

Impressive. They must be one of the only jet manufactures to produce in the states. Maybe thats why the wait for an Ultra Bandit is so long.

[invertmast]

Originally Posted by FlyJ

Is BVM's head of operations and sales in FL or that there actual factory?

Both

Originally Posted by FlyJ

Impressive. They must be one of the only jet manufactures to produce in the states. Maybe thats why the wait for an Ultra Bandit is so long.

Just wanted to apologize if my last couple of comments came across wrong. I didn't mean them to. I just get very frustrated when people begin talking about something incorrectly when the correct information is easily available.

BVM produces 90% of his planes in house. There are 2 "arf" models that are produced out of the country, everything else is made in house.

There are a few other US manufacturers as well. yellow Aircraft, jet model products, jet hangar hobby, just to name a few.