Dummies guide to...

[Todd Moriarty]

Originally Posted by Mercuriell

There's some good advice here - in a high level forum such as this with world experts it's easy to forget the problems with basic concepts - I found ZT's (and others) comments on kV particularly illuminating as I too thought there must be some formula for working it out from the major variables! I thought it worthwhile stickying this so others may avoid the ire of some of our more senior contributors - don't forget the learning part of the Helifreak ethos !!!

Thanks Mercuriell! one more thread that may be handy as a sticky is this one: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=382481

It started off as a project to create a knowledge base for winding, but it looks like once it fell off the front page, it kind of died.

I have found it an invaluable resource

[HeliIntervention]

Originally Posted by Mercuriell

There's some good advice here - in a high level forum such as this with world experts it's easy to forget the problems with basic concepts - I found ZT's (and others) comments on kV particularly illuminating as I too thought there must be some formula for working it out from the major variables! I thought it worthwhile stickying this so others may avoid the ire of some of our more senior contributors - don't forget the learning part of the Helifreak ethos !!!

Thank you....

I seemed to get stickied to the sticky. Maybe it's because I Fly.

So much to learn I actually like winding motors. Learning the benefits of a non stock motor interest me. Gives me more to tinker with. There has been a lot math equations that are very cool. I know that the micro motors are generally not worth rewinding but I have done it. Are there any winding tips and methods for the micro's on up? Are there benefits using flat wires?

Thanks

Sent from Mars. Using Mars Rover.

[Todd Moriarty]

Originally Posted by HeliIntervention

Thank you....

I seemed to get stickied to the sticky. Maybe it's because I Fly.

So much to learn I actually like winding motors. Learning the benefits of a non stock motor interest me. Gives me more to tinker with. There has been a lot math equations that are very cool. I know that the micro motors are generally not worth rewinding but I have done it. Are there any winding tips and methods for the micro's on up? Are there benefits using flat wires?

Thanks

Sent from Mars. Using Mars Rover.

According to this thread, no real benefit, but something neat to try: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=387935

[Jason O'Connell]

This build/review by the Doctor is verry nice for a newb like me. There are also a few others on the Scorpion website. Good stuff here.

http://www.scorpionsystem.com/buildi...ld_and_review/

[HeliIntervention]

Yeah I have seen articles on the net that were similar to the thread. It makes for good reading. One of the things I figured that windings may be easier and look much neater in some cases.

Now flat and square, many pros and cons. With the Cons mostly being with the square as far as it becoming twisted and damaging the coating. Both are a challenge with the flat seems that it would be easier to wrap the poles but crossing over presenting the issue of twist and shorts with both types.

If done correctly it does make for a clean looking motor though on some that I have seen.

6 in 1 hand 1/2 dozen in the other.

Sent from Mars. Using Mars Rover.

[fusionsx00]

so the ultimate dummy guide is to copy the multi strand wind/termination with a single thicker strand.

the only thing you have to worry about is shorts, and then you can use a cheap esc and battery as the sacrifical goat.

[HolleL]

Hello
I think you need this:
http://lambertus.info/?kv-rechner,13

You can type a known Winding in this tool, and the tool give you back a table of other windings for your Motor.

greats Holger

[seth1846]

Originally Posted by HolleL

Hello
I think you need this:
http://lambertus.info/?kv-rechner,13

You can type a known Winding in this tool, and the tool give you back a table of other windings for your Motor.

greats Holger

Hey seems like a great link! I'm interested in this field of the hooby lately and would love beable to use that site, is there an English version you may have a link to?

THX,
Seth

[breathe rc]

Originally Posted by Todd Moriarty

Click EN at the top, and it is in english. It is a calculator for winding patterns. It will output something similar to this:

I know, when I first started using this calculator, I didn't know how to get it to split the motor for yy configuration, until ZT explained it.
1st pic is 12N10P Motor scheme with first calculation in Y termination.
2nd pic is 12N10P Motor Scheme with YY Termination. To get the YY termination, you first calculate Slots=12, Magnet Poles=10, 2 Layers, Y, and push "Compute". That will then give you the 1st pic. Then you click "Advanced" and add "/" in the middle of the scheme. So it will go from this: AabBCcaABbcC to AabBCc/aABbcC and push "Calculate", and that will give you the 2nd pic, which is the wiring scheme for YY termination.
Hope this helps.

[mickeyjohnston]

Can someone explain what the capital letters vs lower case letters mean fpr example : AabBCcaABbcC to AabBCc/aABbcC ? I'm very familar with brushed motors, I use to work for CheckPoint and Reedy in the 80's building and winding motors. Winding brushesless motors is a different story.

[Vinger]

Capital is clockwise and lowercase is anticlockwise winding, or vice versa.

[Ranger71d]

Starting my first rewind. A scorpion 2221. I've done quite a bit of reading. Planning on a 6s setup.
I understnad that this requires an ABCABCABC wind pattern. I plan on a Y termination.
I saw the post that already had the kv I'm looking for at 6+6 YY.
My question is: Is 6+6 YY another way of saying 6T per tooth in Y termination? Or does YY mean something different than my understanding?
Thanks guys. Lots of info here. It has really spiked my interest in this part of the hobby.

R71D
Sent from my phone, excuse the bad grammar and auto corrections.

[Andrew_ZA]

Originally Posted by Ranger71d

Starting my first rewind. A scorpion 2221. I've done quite a bit of reading. Planning on a 6s setup.
I understnad that this requires an ABCABCABC wind pattern. I plan on a Y termination.
I saw the post that already had the kv I'm looking for at 6+6 YY.
My question is: Is 6+6 YY another way of saying 6T per tooth in Y termination? Or does YY mean something different than my understanding?
Thanks guys. Lots of info here. It has really spiked my interest in this part of the hobby.

R71D
Sent from my phone, excuse the bad grammar and auto corrections.

You cant have YY termination on a 9n6p motor. However, you can have a Y or YYY. And yes, saying 6+6+6 is another way of saying 6 turns per tooth For interests sakes, what kv do you think you;ll get?

[breathe rc]

Originally Posted by mickeyjohnston

Can someone explain what the capital letters vs lower case letters mean fpr example : AabBCcaABbcC to AabBCc/aABbcC ? I'm very familar with brushed motors, I use to work for CheckPoint and Reedy in the 80's building and winding motors. Winding brushesless motors is a different story.

Hey Mickey, I fly with you sometimes out there at 7th Street. I can help you get started, if you are seriously interested. As Vinger stated, Capital letters=Clockwise winding, and Lower Case Letters=Counter Clockwise winding.

Originally Posted by Ranger71d

Starting my first rewind. A scorpion 2221. I've done quite a bit of reading. Planning on a 6s setup.
I understnad that this requires an ABCABCABC wind pattern. I plan on a Y termination.
I saw the post that already had the kv I'm looking for at 6+6 YY.
My question is: Is 6+6 YY another way of saying 6T per tooth in Y termination? Or does YY mean something different than my understanding?
Thanks guys. Lots of info here. It has really spiked my interest in this part of the hobby.

R71D
Sent from my phone, excuse the bad grammar and auto corrections.

The pic on the left up above, is a Y termination, and the pic on the right is a YY termination.
Best advice for getting started with winding motors, is to start with a motor that someone has already done and posted the winding scheme and Kv value. Hopefully that way, you wont be overwhelmed. If you are easily frustrated, then dont even bother trying to get into this. I went thru lots of wire, winding, and unwinding, just learning to get the wire laid nice and tight without damaging the protective layer. There is nothing worse than completely winding a motor, and find out there is continuity between your wires, and your stator. So be prepared. These guys with lots of experience on here make it look easy, so don't be fooled.

[Ranger71d]

Thanks Breath RC. I'm OK with a long learning process. That is part of the reason I selected the 2221 motor to start with. I don't fly a 450 right now and the motor isn't what I want to use in any future builds. At least in it's current kv rating. I'm fully expecting to have to redo this a couple times. And it's something I'm prepared to take a lot of time with. Good advice and I appreciate it.
I've used the links in this thread to print out a wiring scheme to have handy and I also used Gobrushless.com for reference information.
I'm starting with a 6+6 Y scheme that someone else has already posted about. It's the kv I'm shooting for. And I think you're right about saving myself a lot of time by using a proven formula.
Thanks again.

[breathe rc]

Glad I could help Ranger. Good luck, and keep us posted on your rewind.


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[Ranger71d]

No so good. The stator separated while removing it from the bearing carrier.
Got it half way off and it felt like it was sticking. So I froze it overnight again. Tried again the following day. Half stayed on the other half completely disassembled.
Not sure what went wrong. The adhesive used by Scorpion is serious. It didn't want to let go.
I'm doing more reading but there isn't much out there specifically about Scorpion stator removal.
Good thing is that 2221 motors are cheap used. So testing on this one isn't a big loss.

R71D
Sent from my phone, excuse the bad grammar and auto corrections.

[Vinger]

Soak it in alcohol and it comes of easy.

[Ranger71d]

Soaked it for about an hour. Should have I gone longer?

R71D
Sent from my phone, excuse the bad grammar and auto corrections.

[breathe rc]

Sorry to hear that Ranger. Usually you remove the stator from the carrier, while the old winding is still in tact.
Well that was a lesson learned, and if the frustration hasn't made you want to give up, that's a good thing. This is your first test of frustration management. Lol
If someone could recommend an epoxy, you can epoxy them back together. You will at least be able to practice your winding on it, if not anything else.
Oh, and there is a screw method for removing the stator. I found it a little difficult to find a sheet of metal thin enough to slide between the top of the stator, and the carrier, that could handle the pressure of the screws, without damaging the top of the stator. But if you have something that works, slide it between the top of the stator and the carrier, and then screw long screws thru the mounting holes to push the stator off.
Keep us posted.


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