flips and funnels question

[anthony1]

i have 2 questions that i would like to try and fid answers too
1.what do i correst in stationary flips to keep them in place, rudder or aileron or both and at what point of the flip?
2. i am working on inverted tail down funnels and can do them pretty much at will but i have trouble controlling where they go, on the sim they are too easy to control and stay centred and nice and round, tightening up as the airspeed drops, how do i keep the airspeed up without climbing?, i seem to be playing with aileron a lot more than i think i should,, is it just keep practicing?

[The3dcrasher]

Hi Anthony my advice for staionary flips would be to practice and master your hovering skills. So if your hovering upright tail in, practice that hover till perfected. When you can do that flip the heli forward and and catch heli in next orientation, which would be nose in inverted. Practice this hover till perfected. Now when you can hover both orientations, you are ready to work on the flip. Every time you flip catch heli back in hover. Take your time from upright to inverted orientation. Dont rush yourself practice often, make your corrections when you catch the heli in tail in hover, or make corrections in nose in inverted hover. If you practice this every time you go out and fly you will see improvement. You will automaticly start making the right corrections as you flip, and you wont be drifting the heli while flipping! Good Luck Doug

[anthony1]

that makes a lot of sense and I have practiced this a lot , I am confident in all orientations(hovering) and forward and backward flight both upright and inverted, but the heli flips so fast( which I like) that I can't make up my mind what it is that I need to adjust, I always seem to drift to the left and in an inverted hover I correct this with left aileron but its almost like I need the tiniest amount at a certain point of the flip to correct and I just can't seem to figure out when and how much, is it a quick jab or a constant left right all the way through the flip , and this is also with a 450 which is squirrelly at the best of times, am I just expecting too much from a small heli

[The3dcrasher]

I have a 450 size heli and 700 helis. They all track well. To become good at flying these helis basics are the key. Do you ever get nervous when your flying? These are the key areas that you should be practicing up hi. To answer your question about the flip, you can control the flip by less input. I would slow the flip down so that your brain and fingers are working together. Take the heli up hi and try to slow the flip down, also make sure you are pushing forward and not slightly left or right. With the slower flip your corrections will be easier. The 450 heli can flip on axis. Try practicing half flips and when you can nail the hover between upright and inverted start speeding up the flip. You will get it!

[anthony1]

sounds cool, slow flips are no problem and i can correct them as needed but fast ones is what gets me, there are times when i don't have to make corrections and do about 10 flips without moving but i don't feel like i'm actually controlling it, its just luck , same with funnels sometimes (5 out of 10) i go into a funnel and its completely locked and it will just go round all day with no corrections, but i don't feel completely in control of it, i can't put it where i want or bring it back to centre when it goes off, i guess its just practice , and the older i get the more practice i need, getting older sucks

[Diviner]

here is a neat little trick for the funnel. Imagine the side of the heli is actually the nose. If you can fly a decent circle, then imagine rotation your stick movements on you right hand 90 degrees. In fact, turn the transmitter 90 degrees and try flying your right hand just like you would with a circle. After all, a funnel is a circle (hurricane), just in a different orientation.

[joecass2]

i had the same problem with stationary flips and rolls what i do now is when i see the heli is upright i put in a little correction to keep the flip or roll in one spot. evey time the heli is upright that is when i put in my correction hope this helps

i don't know if this is the right way i should be doing stationary flips and rolls but it dose work good for me

[Bee_random]

A quick bump of this post as it covers my question and some answers. Does anybody have any further advice? Like the OP, I'm at about the same flight skills and working on honing the small corrections necessary to perform the 'simple' moves with full control.

Maybe Anthony can give us an update?

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by anthony1

i have 2 questions that i would like to try and fid answers too
1.what do i correst in stationary flips to keep them in place, rudder or aileron or both and at what point of the flip?
2. i am working on inverted tail down funnels and can do them pretty much at will but i have trouble controlling where they go, on the sim they are too easy to control and stay centred and nice and round, tightening up as the airspeed drops, how do i keep the airspeed up without climbing?, i seem to be playing with aileron a lot more than i think i should,, is it just keep practicing?

Originally Posted by Bee_random

A quick bump of this post as it covers my question and some answers. Does anybody have any further advice? Like the OP, I'm at about the same flight skills and working on honing the small corrections necessary to perform the 'simple' moves with full control.

Maybe Anthony can give us an update?

1) In a stationary over-nose flip, you start with some aileron lean to counter the translational tendency. As you nose over, you reduce the aileron lean till it's nil when vertical and opposite when inverted. There is no need for any rudder alteration. (you also need to adjust for prevailing wind too )

2) Funnels, like circles are controlled by the angle of the disc. Generally, collective controlls the "tightness of the circle" and in a funnel, elevator mostly controls the height (and the angle). Aileron controls the speed of turn and must be matched with rudder to keep it tail down. While doing all this you need to cater for wind (which will have effect on the speed of the circle at various points). Practice in the sim with gusty (or turbulent wind) to get use to "feeling" how to adjust to keep the funnel in one place relative to the ground (or traveling through the air )

Moderately turbulent (or gusty) wind in the sim is your friend.


Hope this helps.

[Bee_random]

That does help, thank you
I'll be working a lot on the flips for a while.

[Luigi_tuga]

Keeping the 3D moves tight takes a lot of practice. A pro, beside being very precise on the sticks, thus reducing unwanted movements to a bare minimum (if any) is also able to perform tiny corrections in any part of the trick.
This is what keeps the heli perfectly in spot.
To perform this, as said above, takes lots of practice to master all orientations.
Hover is the basic of the basis.
It is a bit pointless to try to learn 3d without having a solid hover in ALL orientations, static and travelling the heli in a box.
Solid hover skills is the foundation to be able to correct anytime you want it.

[ChasingTail]

To fly is heavenly...but to hover is divine!

[Bee_random]

Piro-flips are pretty wicked though