One 6s battery for Trex 600e Pro DFC

[enerko]

Would it be possible to fly Align Trex 600e Pro DFC with one 6s li-po instead of two 6s?
With one 6s will the battery be damaged?

[Smoggie]

it would probably be 'possible' but you would have very little power unless you changed the motor for a high kv type.

It wouldn't do the battery any harm.

[ticedoff8]

I watched a guy fly his Logo 600 with a 6s pack without changing his motor.
The motor ran about 1/2 speed and lasted about twice as long.
But, it was not much fun.

[enerko]

Thanks for the all inputs.
I now understand how it will fly.

[Riff]

You can try to fly your 12s setup at 50% throttle and see how it feels.

[Atomic Skull]

You could do a ghetto 550 conversion and put 550mm blades on it and a 1220kv motor. The 550E DFC comes with a 600 boom now so there wouldn't be much difference between them.

[satgod]

been talked about several times
yes you could but its setup for 12s
you would have to change the motor pinion and get the kde adjustable motor mount just to start
then your looking at gearing and headspeed issues because its setup to run in the 2200-2400rpm range

So its best to leave it as is

[Riff]

I don't understand why ppl would like to reduce voltage and go with 2x higher current. Higher current is more dangerous and more expensive. Higher current means that you need much better batteries and your battery life is also shorter because of higher demands on current side.

If I could I would convert my trex 500 also to 12S. Might try 8s for my trex 500.

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by Riff

Higher current means that you need much better batteries and your battery life is also shorter because of higher demands on current side.

I agree that overall higher voltage is the way to go, but the 'easier on battery' argument is false.

If you take Two 6s packs you can connect them in either series or parallel.

In series you double the voltage to (for sake of simple numbers) 50V, but because they are in series each battery sees the full amps of the system. So for a 5000W power output at 50v then each battery would see 100Amps

Now if you connected them in parallel the voltage would only be 25V, so for the same 5000W of power current would have double to 200A. But because the current is split between the two parallel connected batteries each battery only sees the half of the total current, i.e. they only see the same 100A that they saw under series installation.

The main difference is the ESC. With high voltage you can use a lower amp ESC, but of course it has to be HV.

[Riff]

Would it be possible to fly Align Trex 600e Pro DFC with one 6s li-po instead of two 6s?
With one 6s will the battery be damaged?

I understood that he wanted to use one stock size battery instead of two batteries, if that is not the case and you are planning to use two batteries in parallel then yes, current is divided between those two batteries evenly.

[Smoggie]

Yes, if he tried to pull the same power out of a single battery of the same size then that would be hard on the battery. But if you simply dropped a single 6s into a 12s heli (which appears to have been the OP's idea) it would actually pull far less amps than the 12s did... and far less power too.

Probably wouldn't get off the ground but it wouldn't hard the battery either

[Riff]

Your right. But if he would like to get same power out of one battery then it would be hard on the battery.

Conclusion would be:
1 battery normal c and mAh = not enough power, probably could do a hover
1 battery high c and mAh = hard on one battery, lots of amps needed

So anyway it is not a good idea to use one battery on a 600 and especially when using FBL witch requires little bit more head speed to be stable compared to a FB system.

[ticedoff8]

Riff - your are wrong on every count.

The motor is rated in "kv" - which is "kilocycles per volt". A stock 510kv (510 cycles (RPM) per volt) motor would turn 5100 RPM at 10v (for example).
Using a 6S pack vs. a 12S pack cuts the voltage in 1/2 - so the motor running on a 6S pack turns at 1/2 the RPM as the same motor on a 12S pack.

It will not draw any more current from the battery than if it was 2 6S packs (12S), but the total current draw will be higher due to the higher RPM.

The SAS (Stability Augmentation System) - AKA "FBL" - makes the heli fly the same at all head speeds.
You are flying the SAS, not the head.
If your stick is moved 5* right, that might translate into (for example) 30* per second roll to the right. The SAS will add as much cyclic as needed to get you 30* per second roll.
If the head is turning faster, that will be less blade pitch than if the head is turning slower.
At low head speed, the head might run out of blade pitch before the SAS can deliver the 30* per second roll rate - but that is a different story.

I stand by my original comment:
You can plug a 6S battery into your Trex 600E (using a standard 510kv or 530kv motor) and it will turn at half the speed and give you twice the flight time.
And, it will not be any fun at all.

[Riff]

You are just comparing numbers AND forgetting ALL about flying style and the actual power needed to compensate that flying style.

FBL - please try to fly one with a low head speed and then compare it to FB head at same head speed.

He would need at least 3700mAh 6s 65c batteries to have trouble free flight.

[arpakorn]

I have seen people flied low head speed trex 700 e dfc with 6s 5000mah
80 esc casle,700 mm. Blade, motor align 530kv for 20 min.
After flight, nothing is too hot.
According to the above info, Can I summary as below
1. Due to 6s battery set up, motor shall run at half speed therefore motor
current consumption is lower, consequently 80 amp esc, motor and batt
temperatue turn out to be fine
2. I guess that in terms of current consumption , motor speed has more influence than motor load which is blade pitch. That is why he was able to
fly 20 min without overheat at his 80 amp esc.
Of course, running at low head speed shall not be responsive to your finger
but it is OK for not 3d Player.

[SumOFparts]

If you take a 550 w/6s /600mx and put 600mm blades on it.....Its really not much fun - becomes a slow lumbering giant...

Might be alright for slow, controlled practice...tho

Maybe one of kde 600 XF motors might kick it up....AKA battery puffer...

However running twice as many amps at the lower voltage - has bad habit of desoldering connectors - if everything aint perfect...

-

[RC/DC_5000]

I'd agree that running a 12s system at 6s on the same gearing will just make it a weak dog. The current will not suffer so much as will the RPM and torque. Voltage drop will be seen in reduced RPM and reduced torque. Now if you changed the gearing to try to make that half voltage setup spin the same rpm as it would have originally- Jesus, it would start on fire. lol.

In the case of high current on the 6s battery with similar headspeeds- Those are "hot" motors that suck high current to make similar power, torque and RPM. That setup will surely run high current as the headspeed RPMs are then equal or higher than the 12s system. The motor has about double the Kv to make up for the halve of voltage. This is where the current flow changes.

Those systems are much harder on batteries than an equal headspeed 12s system. A 6s 600 can spike current around 340+ amps... enough to blow off solder joints. My 12s 600 spikes current around 100 amps. On average- my 12s 600 uses around 45 amps of current. Thats insane- the Trex 450L peaks at 45 amps of current.

[Number]

if you run a 12s heli on 6s with not changing setting or pinion or anything, just change battery, the speed is much lower. amp draw is much lower to because the power is lower. I=P/V (current = power divide by volt)

here is video of a 600 running on 6s. Low rpm, low amp, good for learning colective management!

6hv Ultimate @1270rpm (5 min 19 sec)

from desc:
"Dave Ketelhut flying his 6hv ultimate with just one 3300mah 6s battery pack at a tached headspeed of 1270 rpm."

[Smoggie]

***edit*** I must learn to read properly!



PS.. regarding the 6HV video. What they all do to get that sort of performance at those low headspeeds is run massive pitch, often something like +/- 16 degrees, and you would usually have to gear up the tail rotor to stop it blowing out. So dont expect to simply be able to drop a 6s battery in and get similar performance.

[Number]

I did not say to drop a 12s battery in your 6s heli. That would be stupid.

I said drop a 6s battery in your 12s heli... big difference between that and what you seem to think I said