ikon

[Daddy]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

ok great! yes i am running that esc, so no need to remove the red wire then, correct?

Correct. Hope you get her sorted and airborne again soon

[LoveToFly1]

Setting up for final bench test now! Thanks buddy!

[LoveToFly1]

Ok, sbe flies great! But, it sounds like head is spinning much faster than before I installed the unit....I am not using the ikon gov, just the align esc.....motor is hot, esc it warmer than usual and battery is warmer than usual....I am using the EXACT same throttle and pitch curves I was with the same motor and esc before installing the ikon.

Motor is stock 1650kv align motor with 170t main gear and stock 10t pinion gear
Esc is 75amp align esc
Running 6cell battery setup

Any ideas of why it sounds faster and is hotter than usual?

[RedOctobyr]

Nope. The iKon shouldn't affect your RPM, if you are not using its governor.

Did you set up the head for the same amount of collective pitch as you had with the flybar?

The pitch curve, for instance, is just half of the story, the swash mix (FB) or collective-related settings (FBL) will determine your actual pitch. Check the min/max pitch, at least, perhaps you've gone from 12° to 16° or something?

It wouldn't increase your headspeed. But it would make the heli a lot more responsive, and would also make your motor & battery warmer, if you're using the newly-available pitch.

[LoveToFly1]

I will double check it all, but I didn't change any of it from the fb setup....it is much more responsive, goes up and down much much faster, but I am only hovering at the moment, not using much pitch at all. Just enough to get a few feet up and hold it there....I'm kinda stumped...again....lol

[jbobb1]

What did you set your positive and negative pitch in panel 7 of the software?

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by jbobb1

What did you set your positive and negative pitch in panel 7 of the software?

Please forgive my ignorance, but are you asking IF I did, or what I set it to? I am looking at the screen in demo mode now, I centered the servos here, but I did not change the pitch or ciclic % at all in this screen, left them where they were...

Oh, and I mechanically set the head to 0pitch at mid stick also.

[RedOctobyr]

Not having an iKon, I can't help with the software.

But what is your blade pitch with the cyclic centered, and full up collective, then full down collective? Do this in Idle Up (disconnect the motor first, of course). I only ask about IU to ensure we're seeing your "worst case" pitch, and not your Normal or Throttle Hold pitch (I have no idea how you've set up your pitch curves, but am assuming that IU goes 0-25-50-75-100).

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

Not having an iKon, I can't help with the software.

But what is your blade pitch with the cyclic centered, and full up collective, then full down collective? Do this in Idle Up (disconnect the motor first, of course). I only ask about IU to ensure we're seeing your "worst case" pitch, and not your Normal or Throttle Hold pitch (I have no idea how you've set up your pitch curves, but am assuming that IU goes 0-25-50-75-100).

Ok, I will do this tomorrow and let you know (wife is about to kill me over this 24/7 heli addiction at the moment! Lol) I also don't have a pitch gauge and need to buy one tomorrow to measure properly. I assumed it would be the same as when fb, but I see I am wrong. I set 0 pitch at mid stick by leveling the blade grips with the top of the head by eye....stupid I know, but I don't fly 3d so I didn't think it had to be absolutely perfect. Again, I'm new at this. I willv get gauge tomorrow and update and let you know curves.

I can tell u this. Pitch curve is same in iu, normal, amd hold to keep pitch same no matter what, this is bc I'm shooting for scale flying and care nothing for 3d flight.....pitch curve 45, 45, 50, 75, 100.

Please keep following this thread though guys, as you are teaching me sooooo much, I cant express how thankful I am for you guys help. Thank you soooo much.

[jbobb1]

As RedOctobyr mentioned, you could have excessive pos and neg pitch. In panel 7 using the + - buttons in the pitch row is how you adjust your pos neg pitch. You should attach a pitch gage, and see what you have. You can adjust to your flying style. This may or may not be your problem, but you still need to know these numbers

[jbobb1]

You definitely need a pitch gage. This is the one I use.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...al-Pitch-Gauge

[RedOctobyr]

As this is FBL, you need a digital pitch gauge, you cannot use the $2 plastic gauges.

(Unless you attach a specific mount to the top of your head, in place of the head button, and slip a flybar through it, to provide a horizontal reference. If they make those for 600's. I have one for my 450.)

If you want to do the trigonometry, you can measure the gap between the two blade tips, with the blades rotated so their tips are next to each other. Do this at full pitch, then measure the distance to the pivots, and do the trig, you can calculate the angle.

Heck, you might be able to take a picture like that, from the side, and draw lines over the 2 blades, including a point where they meet. Hold a protractor up to that to get the angle, or maybe software can help measure the angle.

Just be aware that if you use the approach of measuring between the blade tips, you need to consider that you would be measuring the total angle (the included angle) between the + blade and the - blade.

So if you measured the gap, and calculated 20°, that's really only 10° on each blade. And the 10° (the angle of each blade from horizontal) is the pitch number you're interested in.

But you will likely want to have a proper pitch gauge for the future anyhow. Just trying to provide an option, either for speed, or cost.

[Daddy]

Theres some options on pitch gages and setup with fbl

[LoveToFly1]

ok, great guys, thanks! i will get a digital one just to make things easier! lol....im not bad at math, but i dont want to have to do it every time i need to check my pitch. i hope this issue is this simple....

[LoveToFly1]

ok so i have been doing some math. no, i have not got the pitch gauge, but i am working on it. but about the head speed.

if this formula is correct my head speed should be this:
1650kv X 22.2v X 0.9 X 10t / 170t = 1,939rpm @ 100% throttle at end of flight.

so if i am running at 85% should be 1,648rpm

i am just over mid stick in a hover, that is < 85% throttle on my curve. i should adjust my curve so at just over mid stick i am already at 85% where my motor will be happiest, correct? that should help with some of the heat in the esc and motor. but i still need to check the pitch values and all, but that could be one of my issues there.

[LoveToFly1]

and now i have a pitch gauge on my phone that i can use to tell you guys, so soon as i get home and get settled i will let you guys know! thanks again for everything guys!

[jbobb1]

If you like phone apps, get the "MrMel headspeed calculator

[RedOctobyr]

Throttle curve proposal sounds reasonable.

If you have a lot more pitch now, you might be hovering at a lower % on your throttle curve. Bogging the motor, drawing more current, etc.

Ensuring a higher throttle by mid stick sounds worth trying. May be a bit of a band aid, if pitch is still off.

Typically (albeit maybe not for scale), mid stick is 0 pitch. If you are hovering a bit over mid stick, then you probably have positive pitch at mid stick. Not how I would set it up, but I am not flying scale, either.

Sent using Tapatalk.

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by jbobb1

If you like phone apps, get the "MrMel headspeed calculator

will do!

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

Throttle curve proposal sounds reasonable.

If you have a lot more pitch now, you might be hovering at a lower % on your throttle curve. Bogging the motor, drawing more current, etc.

Ensuring a higher throttle by mid stick sounds worth trying. May be a bit of a band aid, if pitch is still off.

Typically (albeit maybe not for scale), mid stick is 0 pitch. If you are hovering a bit over mid stick, then you probably have positive pitch at mid stick. Not how I would set it up, but I am not flying scale, either.

Sent using Tapatalk.

yes, my pitch curve is as follows:
45, 45, 50, 75, 100

so i SHOULD be a 0 pitch at mid stick....but i will know when i get home and check with my handy new pitch app! lol i did manually set it a 0 at mid stick when setting up the ikon, but went by leveling the blade grips with the top of the head, so i should be very very close at least....

i dont know my trottle curve off the top of my head, but i will post it when i am at home. for 3d you guys use liner curves right? see, im not going upside down, so no need for that, just need proper head speed and proper positive pitch (that will take a lot of flying to get it just right for me).

[RedOctobyr]

Linear pitch curves, not throttle, in Idle Up for sport/3D, yes.

May not work on a giant 600. But one method for checking for 0 pitch at mid stick is to rotate the blades back or forward a little in their grips. Not too far, or the weight of the blades will be hard on your servos.

Now look at them from the side, at mid stick. They should pretty much make a straight line. Allow maybe for a bit of sag, from play in the linkages.

Give positive pitch, and you will see them form a V or a ^, viewed from the side.

Another tip, temporarily make your pitch curve something like 45-50-50-75-100, anything with 2 adjacent entries of 50. Now as long as the sick position is anywhere between those two, you get exactly a 50% pitch signal. Not sensitive to the stick being slightly up or down. Put the pitch curve back before flying, of course

I will also rotate the blades so their tips are next to each other. Then rotate the head a full 360 deg, and watch the gap between the blade tips. If your swash is level, the gap will not change as you rotate the head around. If it gets bigger/smaller as the head rotates, your swash is not level.

Again, with big 600 blades, this may be a terrible idea, I don't know? If you have two broken, shorter blades, you could swap them in, to reduce the weight load on the servos.

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