I just cant get tail dow funnels! advice please!!!

[13kawasaki13]

I'm having trouble with tail down funnels I can do nose down funnels alright but I'm still working on it. no matter how much simming and real life practice I do I cant get tail down funnels down, my biggest problem is starting the funnel and once its going I can maintain it just fine but I'm having huge trouble on getting it going so any advice is greatly appreciated

[gitbse]

Here's how I did it when I was first starting funnels. I was a left rudder flyer, like most mode 2 users, so that's how I'll describe it.

Start with a basic nose in hover. Start flying straight backwards, tilt to the right, and swing the nose around left rudder until the tail is pointing down. That's about it. It helps alot if you are pretty comfortable with backwards flying.

[LN400]

Another way to approach it is to start with slow sideways flight and lazy bank turns working on maintaining a clean cut flight path with little to no deviation or slipping around.

As you get more comfortable with bank turns in sideways flight and can control the flight path, gradually increase the bank angle, just slightly, and work on keeping that flight path clean cut. Keep increasing that bank angle and eventually, you get to the hurricane.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by 13kawasaki13

I'm having trouble with tail down funnels I can do nose down funnels alright but I'm still working on it. no matter how much simming and real life practice I do I cant get tail down funnels down, my biggest problem is starting the funnel and once its going I can maintain it just fine but I'm having huge trouble on getting it going so any advice is greatly appreciated

Just trying this in the sim after a hover practice.

The easiest way I found to get in for a upright CCW tail-down funnel (left rudder) was to start a fast upright CCW tail-last circle and after the first 1/4 of the circle, not alter the rudder and let it slip into a tail down funnel. When flying the disc, it all just happens auto-magically.

If wanting to do a upright CW tail-down funnel (right rudder), I start a fast CW upright tail-last circle and let it slip in by after the first 1/4 by not moving the rudder.

To do tail up funnels, I over-extend the tail-last rudder after the first 1/4 circle and cyclic adjust to fly the disc - hope this makes sense.

By using this method, the disc is already staring to trace a circle, I'm just varying the tail angle.

Just a suggestion (as I am only a noob at all this and there are others WAY more experienced here like gitbse). Sometimes a different point of view can make things click.

[Clips]

Start with a basic nose in hover. Start flying straight backwards, tilt to the right, and swing the nose around left rudder until the tail is pointing down. That's about it. It helps alot if you are pretty comfortable with backwards flying

Thanks!!! This realy helped me. Now I'm doing funnels over and over on the sim. Have not tried it in real life yet but hopefully I will once the weather allow me to.

The easiest way I found to get in for a upright CCW tail-down funnel (left rudder) was to start a fast upright CCW tail-last circle and after the first 1/4 of the circle, not alter the rudder and let it slip into a tail down funnel. When flying the disc, it all just happens auto-magically.

LOL! I'm sure this is right but to be honest I don't understand anything of what you are writing. It's probably me though, not you

Tanks to both!!

Clips

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Clips

Thanks!!! This really helped me. Now I'm doing funnels over and over on the sim. Have not tried it in real life yet but hopefully I will once the weather allow me to.

Happy it's working for you.

Originally Posted by Clips

LOL! I'm sure this is right but to be honest I don't understand anything of what you are writing. It's probably me though, not you

I'll take it as me. Not enough experience to think like a seasoned pilot.

My description was how I get into one from forwards flight (instead of backwards). With gitbse's method, the nose is already up, you just swing the tail (which is probably more elegant).

[gitbse]

[msallua]

Originally Posted by gitbse

Here's how I did it when I was first starting funnels. I was a left rudder flyer, like most mode 2 users, so that's how I'll describe it.

Start with a basic nose in hover. Start flying straight backwards, tilt to the right, and swing the nose around left rudder until the tail is pointing down. That's about it. It helps alot if you are pretty comfortable with backwards flying.

Thanks, works for me!

[jxl857]

I would learn backwards flight first, if you haven't already. Then you can start with a backwards circle and give it a little extra rudder until the tail is pointed down.

Another way to think of it, which helped me is that a funnel is basically just a sideways circle. As such, the corrections are no different, just rotated 90 degrees. And the most important thing is that the tail must be perpendicular to the direction of travel (pointed down) otherwise your corrections will be off. Start off with a shallow funnel (so that you have more time to correct for errors) then gradually make them steeper as you become more familiar.

[matthewcornell]

Man, funnels took me months of sim time before they clicked. And then it did, like that. Then it's time to graduate to a live model. Stick with it - you will get it. I'm glad you're practicing all four combinations - CW and CCW, nose-in and tail-in. I'm working on inverted ones, and I've found they're easier because I've got the feel of them down. That said, it still takes me time to groove into them. Needs more practice!

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by matthewcornell

Man, funnels took me months of sim time before they clicked. And then it did, like that. Then it's time to graduate to a live model. Stick with it - you will get it. I'm glad you're practicing all four combinations - CW and CCW, nose-in and tail-in. I'm working on inverted ones, and I've found they're easier because I've got the feel of them down. That said, it still takes me time to groove into them. Needs more practice!

Funnels (especially tail down ones) do take a while. In the sim I was doing 8s in all directions and orientations before funnels started to click. (Till then virtual carnage ruled the attempts)

In the sim, I do at least 10 tail-down (and tail-up) funnels in each direction each day (CW/CCW, upright/inverted). Easiest way in in from tail-first circles (but can drop in from nose first as well). At first tail-down funnels feel similar to tail-first circles.

Just takes time to groove. Mine still wander quite a bit, but I can correct to bring them back online.

Once can do funnel 8's in all directions in real life, personal reward is a 450 or greater size heli. (Have already trasferred inverted circles from sim to IRL).

[004ustamok]

seems to work best for me is starting into the move in at least a slightly backwards attitude.

[RogerRabit]

Another possibibiltiy is to learn piro circles.
Then you have thefour funnels automatic in your brain.

and you can interchange between them in the funnel.

[matthewcornell]

Originally Posted by RogerRabit

Another possibibiltiy is to learn pirocircles.
Then you have thefour funnels automatic in your brain.

and you can interchange between them in the funnel.

I've been working on those in the sim for months , but I haven't wrapped my head around them yet. Plus, they are boring :-)

[RogerRabit]

Originally Posted by matthewcornell

I've been working on those in the sim for months , but I haven't wrapped my head around them yet. Plus, they are boring :-)

Yes? I had some on the 700 IRL today and there was a gusty breeze. The tail didnt hold in two incidends while working against the wind.
Boring?
I had some adrenaline to switch between cw/ccw without intention having the heli immediate at 60 degree banked.

Tip for the sim: Orientation is the key. You might try to fly them totally synchronized first, e.g. exact 1 or two additional piros per circle.