New Futaba 14SG-Telemetry!

[RC Mike]

Originally Posted by Jotto

It looks a lot like the 8FG.

I think it’s just an 8FG with telemetry and FHSS firmware added.
　
　
I have heard that they are having problems getting FCC certification on the telemetry system so it could be a while before it’s legal in the US.
　

[hpilotrc]

Originally Posted by RC Mike

　
I have heard that they are having problems getting FCC certification on the telemetry system so it could be a while before it’s legal in the US.
　

Maybe we can get an update from SKALUF on this matter?

Hard to believe the telemetry could be causing a problem with certification since it is already used in the 18mz?

I bet a lot of people are waiting for this transmitter to become available and it is probably already here in the US waiting to be released!

I hope the delay has nothing to do with the Obama Regime and the budget!

[Phaedrus]

I know that it is pending FCC certification but I have not heard that there are "problems". Just the FCC grinding along at their usual spritely rate. I got to fondle one this weekend at the AMA Expo in Ontario, CA and it feels great in your hands. I fly an 18MZ and this felt every bit as solid as that. The sticks are also really nice.

I'm not Steve, but I hope that helps.

[hpilotrc]

I sold my "new" 7-year-old Futaba 14mz in order to purchase the 14sg transmitter.

The 14mz was nice but expensive and I did not like having to charge the batteries so often. You also couldn't see the display in the daytime unless you pointed it into direct sunlight!

The backlight only helped in the dark....not their best design!

Looking forward to the telemetry, much longer battery life, and LCD display which should be much easier to see!

Right now I can only fly my models that are linked to my trusty Spektrum DX8 with the superior "model match" feature Hopefully Futaba will figure out a way using the telemetry to incorporate a similiar design to protect us from operating the wrong model at powerup! The Spektrum guys figured out how to over come DSM2 (with DSMx).....so come on Futaba!

Michael

[NTM]

It blows my mind that the number one goal of radio manufacturers hasn't been the holy grail of a mah counter on telemetry with an alarm in the transmitter.
This is something we've been missing for years and will revolutionize electric flight, which is the majority of helis now.
I don't care what my rpm is.
I don't care how high I am.
I don't care how far the model has travelled.
I DO care how much battery is left, and can maximize my flight times by knowing.

I'll buy a 14sg when futaba releases a mah counter sensor for it.

I know it can be done through jlog, but it's far from plug and play.

[d_wheel]

Originally Posted by NTM

I DO care how much battery is left, and can maximize my flight times by knowing.

I'll buy a 14sg when futaba releases a mah counter sensor for it.

IMHO

A well calibrated mah counter on an otherwise perfect system would be a great addition. However, perfection is very hard to achieve. No two battery packs are exactly the same. Connectors and solder joints are hardly ever duplicate. Etc. A method that works well with even non-perfect systems is to read battery voltage under load along with timing your flights. After 5 or 6 flights, you should know how long your batteries will last. Most of us perform the same maneuvers during each flight so ending voltage should be more or less the same. In the past we set our timer to get us down with at least 20% left in the pack. That was the only method we had in an attempt make our packs last as long as possible . If a pack started reading too low after a flight, and/or was getting too hot, we assumed it was losing capacity and made our decision what to do. In some case, I have run the pack so low that it was no longer usable even for shorter flights. By using a voltage monitor on our telemetry we will know when the voltage is getting below a dangerous level when heavily loaded and maybe save the pack. With a mah counter we would most likely continue flying until the pack was damaged or destroyed because after all, our 'fuel tank' says it isn't empty yet. So, even with the counter we would still need to monitor voltage.

Voltage sensors are already available and should require no calibration. I have used several different mah counters on fpv systems and have yet to find one that was accurate even after careful calibration. After I started using the voltage under load method, I never ran out of juice during a flight and never damaged a pack.

Later;

D.W.

[Magneto]

A mah counter would be all im looking for also Ive heard good things about the IISI system it seems to be popular in Germany Minicopter is a dealer , I may keep my 8FG and try IISI unless futaba comes out will somthing similar for the 14SG. http://www.iisi-rc.com/IISI-RC/Products.html http://www.minicopter.de/en/iisi-telemetry

[Magneto]

Robbe is making this MAH sensor http://www.robbe.de/stromsensor-150a.html

[DominicD]

Originally Posted by d_wheel

IMHO

A well calibrated mah counter on an otherwise perfect system would be a great addition. However, perfection is very hard to achieve. No two battery packs are exactly the same. Connectors and solder joints are hardly ever duplicate. Etc. A method that works well with even non-perfect systems is to read battery voltage under load along with timing your flights.

Sorry but I have to strongly disagree. First off measuring current is rather simple, many companies in this hobby have been using an allegro hall sensor for YEARS. Measuring mah has nothing to do with what battery you are using, what the charge rate is, what connectors you use ............

And using voltage as a measure of capacity is worse than using a timer IMHO.

[GimpyGolden]

I don't like the idea of a pass through sensor.
Dom what is the likely failure rate for that style in our application and if it did fail would power be lost?

Would a clamp style be a better choice?

[tworst]

Originally Posted by DominicD

And using voltage as a measure of capacity is worse than using a timer IMHO.

Not sure if I am understanding what is the most important thing to know for when you need to land your bird. I always kind of assumed that if you know your voltage is getting to some low value, that was a good indicator of a good time to put down. What if you did have some way of knowing the mah used? You would also have to know your starting capacity and maybe you forgot to give your battery a full charge. Or maybe you thought you put in a 2300 bat when in fact you put in a 2000 bat. So you could run out of juice if just looking at the mah used. On the other hand, if you just monitor your voltage, it doesn't matter how much juice you started with or how much you used. You just know your voltage is getting low and that all you need to know. I haven't really given this a whole lot of thought so maybe I am missing something here. But it seems like what you are trying to avoid is loosing RX link due low voltage.

[DominicD]

The voltage of a pack depends on too many factor, from the pack's age, the outside temperature, the internal temperature, your flying style, how aggressive you have your esc gains set too, the angle of the moon and stars align.... And when you really start to throw a heli around the sky the voltage alarm would be going off pretty much the entire flight.

The mah used is entirely dependent on you, forgetting to charge a pack or putting the wrong pack in a heli is ENTIRELY under your control.

[d_wheel]

Originally Posted by DominicD

Sorry but I have to strongly disagree. First off measuring current is rather simple, many companies in this hobby have been using an allegro hall sensor for YEARS. Measuring mah has nothing to do with what battery you are using, what the charge rate is, what connectors you use ............

And using voltage as a measure of capacity is worse than using a timer IMHO.

Since I didn't say that measuring current is difficult, or anything about the charge rate, I will not comment on those points any further.

Current reading has a lot to do with the battery you are using and with connectors.

Connector first. If a connector is not making good contact or has a faulty solder connection, frayed wiring, etc., it will limit the amount of current that can be passed. This might be displayed as the battery reading normal voltage, but the motor not producing the expected power. You know that the voltage is good so the problem has to be in the circuit between the battery and motor. With a current sensor you could also know you had a problem as it would show lower than expected current being supplied to the motor. But, without knowing the battery voltage you might possibly think the battery was not fully charged. A voltage monitor would prove that was not the case.

You should never use voltage or time as a measure of capacity, but without any other information it is a guideline as to when to end the flight. You should use voltage UNDER LOAD as a measure of battery condition. Using a battery voltage alarm in combination with timing your flights will provide you a lot of information. A battery that is losing capacity or has developed an internal connection or chemical defect will not supply the expected quantity of current. Most of us have also been guilty of trying to use a battery that hasn't been fully charged since its last use. If you have a low voltage alarm set up and it goes off well before your expected flight time, you have an opportunity to get the aircraft on the ground before something bad happens and then determine why the voltage was dropping so quickly. Using a current sensor alone in the more commonly used method, a bar graph displaying the percentage of charge remaining, might not end as well. When the voltage dropped below a critical level you will not know it because your current sensor 'gauge' would be showing a usable percentage of charge remaining and you would continue flying because your 'gas gauge' says you are not empty yet. In some cases this would end in a forced landing and/or a severely discharged battery. Some might say that they will know when a battery is low or bad because they notice a drop in performance of the aircraft. If your senses are that well developed, then you probably don't need either a voltage OR current monitor/alarm .

A person should always use what ever makes them feel most comfortable. If you feel better with a 'current gauge' display then by all means stick with it. I feel best when I know what the voltage is reading UNDER LOAD. However, being able to use a current sensor combined with a voltage monitor would be the best of both worlds and would be my choice if available.

Later;

D.W.

[DominicD]

The pack voltage is ALL over the place in a flight, like trying to judge the direction of a humming bird from its current location.

I also fail to see what a fault connection has to do with measuring current.

[DominicD]

Originally Posted by d_wheel

Some might say that they will know when a battery is low or bad because they notice a drop in performance of the aircraft. If your senses are that well developed, then you probably don't need either a voltage OR current monitor/alarm .

I cannot actually hear my 10CG alarm over the noise of a heli so my timer is actually pretty useless. But i know when I can feel the heli backing off and land it. I am able to consistently put back the same mah flight after flight. BUT i would still like a MAH trigger (with an buzzer with a volume control) to sqweeze out another 20seconds of flying.

[tworst]

Originally Posted by DominicD

The voltage of a pack depends on too many factor, from the pack's age, the outside temperature, the internal temperature, your flying style, how aggressive you have your esc gains set too, the angle of the moon and stars align.... And when you really start to throw a heli around the sky the voltage alarm would be going off pretty much the entire flight.

The mah used is entirely dependent on you, forgetting to charge a pack or putting the wrong pack in a heli is ENTIRELY under your control.

But if I can monitor the voltage, I don't care about the factors that effect the voltage. I only want to know when my pack voltage is getting so low that I risk loosing the connection, for whatever reason. If I am throwing the heli around and it starts hitting a voltage close to receiver loss, I don't care if I am at 100% or 50% mah remaining in the battery.

Yes, I know the operation is under my control. But I human dude. I make mistakes. As a safegaurd against a possible mistake, I would use a low voltage alarm. If my pack is only half full when I start my flight, I will just get a low alarm sooner than I otherwise would. Ideally, I would actually like to have 2 voltage alarms, one for the pack voltage and one for the reciever voltage. Then probably also use a timer alarm as well to make sure I am attenttive to the up coming LV alarm.

Anyway, I am not as experienced as you guys, but just trying to understand all this stuff and I appreciate your comments.

[DominicD]

You shouldn't EVER lose your rx connection no matter how low your pack goes. The heli will fall out of the sky from a lack of power before the rx has a problem.

[d_wheel]

Originally Posted by DominicD

The pack voltage is ALL over the place in a flight, like trying to judge the direction of a humming bird from its current location.

Exactly. That's why I capitalize VOLTAGE UNDER LOAD. Set your alarm for slightly less than you want to see while UNDER LOAD.

I also fail to see what a fault connection has to do with measuring current.

I know of no other way to explain it other than how I already have so will not make another attempt.

Later;

D.W.

[DominicD]

And assuming a constantly load that works. My pack voltage (due to a varying load) is all over the place in a flight, the alarm would be sounding off several times a second, how does that help me at all ?

[d_wheel]

Originally Posted by DominicD

I cannot actually hear my 10CG alarm over the noise of a heli so my timer is actually pretty useless.

That's what I like about the newer radios. They have vibrator alarms. I don't need to hear it.

But i know when I can feel the heli backing off and land it. I am able to consistently put back the same mah flight after flight. BUT i would still like a MAH trigger (with an buzzer with a volume control) to sqweeze out another 20seconds of flying.

In that case, you don't need an alarm of any kind. When you feel it backing off, fly for another 20 seconds.

Later;

D.W.