3GX 5.0 Settings For 450 Class

[Sefrez]

I never heard of the keeping gyro gains below 100. Interesting to know. I'm guessing the servos are working harder at higher gains and this puts greater load on the BEC.

I'm hoping this isn't much an issue for me as I am running at about 130-140 on both elevator and aileron. I tried running 100 a while back and the heli (450L 3S) was quite loose as if there wasn't much correction. It's likely this "rule" doesn't apply to me.

I do however agree with 000pitch in that gain is related to how the fbl system corrects movements in flight (and gives stability). Given that higher gain makes the system more active in these corrections it only seems reasonable, for a preferred stable heli, that you increase them as much as you can without bringing about other unwanted affects. Be it a overheating ESC, quick oscillations, whatever.

I don't feel that we should be comparing numbers over versions. I also don't feel we should get attached to specific numbers either. The numbers themselves are extended upon by many other variables that makes more general judgments with them useless. We can only hope, (a hope that this thread assumes) that the variation is small. Perhaps it could be considered small among users of a specific heli class and 3GX version. But it seems apparent to me that numbers are varying among 3GX versions large enough that comparisons are inaccurate.

I would say the best we can do is setup the units to give for best flying performances without falling into traps. Who cares about numbers and comparing them among units. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if flight characteristics were more representative of electronic workings than numbers in the fbl system. I.e. if you are just getting oscillations at ~180 in 5.0 that you were getting at ~120 in 4.0, it's probably more likely that the servos are working just as hard in 4.0 as 5.0 than the numbers implying "such a difference". Again, it goes back to comparisons that probably shouldn't be made.

[000pitch]

Version 5.0 sure is a whole new world. Its verrry different than 4.0
After flying it all day today... I'm starting to feel like 5.0 could be called FFF firmware.
And 4.0 could be called 3D firmware.

Reason being, is that 5.0 is so invasive. Like seriously the helicopter is flying itself at a few points. I'll be flying- talking to the 3GX and be like..."Hey- I didn't say to do that.... it wasn't bad to have done that... and you were right.. but I didn't say..." I turned the FCC down to 30 and will be trying that tomorrow, but still it is very active and alive. This is super cool for FFF. I mean the helicopter will literally maintain its own altitude, attitude and direction at full speed. I can buzz the ground going into the wind, where before I'd be scared the wind would blow it into a dirtnap. When you do a really big air loop.. the helicopter is almost in control of itself. Half pipe action? The helicopter actually sort of hangs in the air on its own. Its getting to be like the new Robocop movie. Who's flying this thing? Me or the computer? I can't always tell.

4.0 is no slouch... and still excellent firmware. It doesn't do so much correction. It kinda leaves it all up to you. Which you may like or not like.

Flying these two versions back to back today... I had a foresight into the future. Where FBL systems could have two modes... one tailored for 3D and one for FFF. Both compensating and adjusting to suit their style. Just like how motorcycles have ignition map switches that change their power output at the flick of a switch.

I guarantee by like 2018 there will be an FBL controller that can autonomously run pre programmed 3D aerobatic flight demos. Perhaps you could even design the demo via the software... in other words, orchestrate the 3D maneuvers that the computer will fly.

[Bonkievan]

Good points, 000pitch.

So far as FBL's having 2 or more 'flight modes', some do already with bank switching in some respects. You can also do it manually with all FBLs/txs but it's just a bit more labour intensive and not just a flick of a switch, as it were.

With regard to the 3gx, and probably all FBLs, it has a lot to do firmware versions and how the developers decide to roll them out. Eg. from memory the 3gx V3.0 was causing a few issues with folks finding default settings too 3d like with regard to flip and roll rates. Stability was obviously improved with 3.1 but Align programmers obviously decided to soften their default settings with this version also, IMO.

Better to start softly, softly than having it dialled right up from the outset, especially since a lot of the Align 3gx market is first 3d heli, super combos etc.

Just my 2c

[{}{steve}{}]

Is the soft start spool up handled in the 3GX or the align ESC? I upgraded to 5.0 and my soft start has gone away so I'm not sure if I accidentally changed the setting in my ESC or if I somehow missed that setting in the 3GX. I do like the feel over 4.0 so far, though, and the tail feels MUCH better. I'm running this on a TRex 450 Pro converted to DFC.

[Bonkievan]

Esc, steve.
Although, I never did play around with softstart features in the 1 Align ESC I had, but the soft start settings in all of my Castle ESCs, motor spool up rate, start power etc, are within the esc programming tabs.

Not sure why you would have lost yours??

[{}{steve}{}]

Originally Posted by Bonkievan

Esc, steve.
Although, I never did play around with softstart features in the 1 Align ESC I had, but the soft start settings in all of my Castle ESCs, motor spool up rate, start power etc, are within the esc programming tabs.

Not sure why you would have lost yours??

I just downloaded the ESC manual, and it looks like I must have put it into programming mode by accident. Looks like it will be easy to get it straightened out though.

[000pitch]

So I flew 8 packs on 5.0 again today. Ended up going down to 30 on Flight Condition Control. This brought back the agility and freedom in the cyclic... but the collective is still super dampened. Makes it feel softer... and yet also it feels like you can't crash it. Altitude stabilization going full speed into the wind is unreal. Bring it up to full speed.. adjust the attitude.. and let go of the sticks. It will cut right through the wind on its own. Inverted with the tail leading? Same thing.

It feels like there are rubber bands suspending the swashplate and a force field around the tail. Seriously. Its pretty cool once you get used to it.

Good Lord it will hockey stop and turn so sharp in the air... its insane. When you go to initiate a hard banked roll... it will stabilize itself to the hard limit of blade bark. But yet the blades hardly make a sound and you turn sharper than ever. Scary.

The tail also has its own agenda. You can see and feel it reposition itself upon certain maneuvers. By the 7th battery though.. it all started to feel normal. Just something you have to get used to.

If I had to summarize 5.0 in one word. It would be SILENT. The computer smooths out so much... that the blades hardly ever make a sound.

[Parakos]

Trying to get my 3GX 5.0 sorted on my 450L. Yesterday I tried to fix the annoying "bouncing back" thing when you stop a piro maneuver. Tried lowering the Rudder Lock Gain, but that only made the tail woble. Changing the gyro gain to compensate only made it worse...

Any ideas?

The 3GX is probably a great gyro, but for a beginner like me it is a pain to setup compared to my GT5.2...

[000pitch]

Is the rudder delay value set to 0? If not, you shouldn't even fly it. Its never going to be in the same ball park without it.

[Parakos]

Originally Posted by 000pitch

Is the rudder delay value set to 0? If not, you shouldn't even fly it. Its never going to be in the same ball park without it.

Yes, the delay is set to "0", double checked it on the PC.

[dja2424]

Originally Posted by Parakos

Yes, the delay is set to "0", double checked it on the PC.

Actually, I read somewhere that for some people, depending on what tail servo you're running, a little delay actually helps with the bounce back. Can't confirm it because zero has been working for me.

dja2424

[000pitch]

Rudder Delay of 0-10 is a far cry from the default setting. 0 is where you should start. It should work on or very close to 0. The bounce back can be caused from many other things though. Not just rudder lock gain and rudder delay value.

I would go over the entire tail setup again. Make sure it follows the Align manual. Ive built several 450Ls for friends with the 3GX.. and they all worked. It was the rudder delay value that made the tail act crazy.

Servo centered, horn at 90 degrees, absolute freedom for linkage movement ( the tail slider should move with gravity alone), straight linkage rod, so as not to stick in the guides and cause friction, max endpoints set before servo buzz.... tail slider positioned just left of center travel for anti torque compensation... and so on.

Your bounce back could very well be from the servo fighting friction in the tail slider. Try disconnecting the rudder servo.. and move the linkage as if you were the servo... does it move effortlessly from limit to limit? And not stick at the ends of travel?

I mean it should move so freely, that it feels like air. Most of the tail boxes I built needed to be oiled and massaged back and forth with pressure to really get loose and not stick at the limits. It matters. There are Youtube videos demonstrating how loose it gets after working with it and breaking it in. One guy can just turn the tail box upside down.. and slider will drop to the other side of its travel.

The tail gyro needs to move incredibly fast back and forth without any more resistance than the tail rotor already provides.... or it wont work right.

[maverickk]

On the tail bounce problem, if you have not already done it, make sure there is no drift on a test flight in rate mode. For the rudder servo, I also use the control horn hole closest to the center of the servo - this always works well for me.

[Parakos]

Thanks for all the tips! I checked the tail slider and there is definatily som friction near the bearing on the tail shaft. You can hear the servo fighting it at some positions. Strange, when I built it I couldn't feel any friction... Anyway I have been massaging it out now, too bad I have to wait until monday to try it out since the last tail wag/Bounce cost me a front torque tube drive gear.

[Mxracer3651]

Originally Posted by 000pitch

So I flew 8 packs on 5.0 again today. Ended up going down to 30 on Flight Condition Control. This brought back the agility and freedom in the cyclic... but the collective is still super dampened. Makes it feel softer... and yet also it feels like you can't crash it. Altitude stabilization going full speed into the wind is unreal. Bring it up to full speed.. adjust the attitude.. and let go of the sticks. It will cut right through the wind on its own. Inverted with the tail leading? Same thing.

It feels like there are rubber bands suspending the swashplate and a force field around the tail. Seriously. Its pretty cool once you get used to it.

Good Lord it will hockey stop and turn so sharp in the air... its insane. When you go to initiate a hard banked roll... it will stabilize itself to the hard limit of blade bark. But yet the blades hardly make a sound and you turn sharper than ever. Scary.

The tail also has its own agenda. You can see and feel it reposition itself upon certain maneuvers. By the 7th battery though.. it all started to feel normal. Just something you have to get used to.

If I had to summarize 5.0 in one word. It would be SILENT. The computer smooths out so much... that the blades hardly ever make a sound.

agreed with flight characteristics.. I have probably more 3gx experience than anyone having 6 units on totally different helis since the day they came out in 2011 and this software version is the best I believe.. I had the same swash gain problem too... I raised mine to near max before the head felt as locked stiff as lower numbered gains previously did.. im testing the 5.0 in my goblin 630 which is my test dummy heli.. which I would like to point out with a 3gx on it and flown since 2012 and still has the original blades... never hit the ground... my 3gx reliability has been from using a separate battery with 2 sets of heavy gauge JST power wires going to the 3gx. and the other 3gx know-how is power up .. always transmitter power up.. wait 2 seconds then. receiver... it will always initials properly that way.. other than that the 3gx is pretty good on the new software and on par with all the other units I own that are out there.. and I fly vbar silverline pro , mini vbar , ar7200bx, icon... i've also setup 5 other peoples 3gx units all working great.. If anyone is having issues .. 80% of them are setup related.. but there are a few duds like any brand. But the power setup and initialization I mention here removes the power glitch problems and swash dropping.. etc..

[Mxracer3651]

Originally Posted by maverickk

On the tail bounce problem, if you have not already done it, make sure there is no drift on a test flight in rate mode. For the rudder servo, I also use the control horn hole closest to the center of the servo - this always works well for me.

same thing I was thinking if his tail pitch isn't perfect in rate mode or with the gyro in setup mode where you can check that the tail has a few degrees of pitch that will cause bounce back in at least one direction from it overshooting the point where it should be positioned when in setup mode.

[000pitch]

Ahh.. MXracer- I've been riding and racing motocross since I was a little kid. Perhaps great minds think alike? ;-) I think RC helis and motocross go quite well together.

I made a video of me flying the 3GX on 5.0 Nothing too special, its my first 450 video and I wanted to showcase how the collective compensates. Its pretty unreal how it works now to keep the helicopter locked in altitude. Remember when your helicopter would jump up and down in FFF going into the wind... or come off a roll and shoot straight down? That's all absorbed and counteracted in the computer. Its honestly the strangest feeling, but once you get used to it... Very cool. I swear it feels like you cant crash, because the helicopter wont descend unless you make it. And at speed, it cuts straight lines instead of you having to work the collective up and down for the wind. Heads up, that if you push it too hard, instead of being pushed into the ground, the heli will elevate on its own and shoot you up in the sky. I'm not sure if this intentional or just the limit of the system. Perhaps the pilot could push it harder on his own... at the risk of dirtnapping at full speed. The wind can catch you off guard.

I'm VERY anxious to see the next firmware version. I like what they are trying to accomplish, I'm expecting that they can perfect it more though and make it a little more connected to the sticks. Sort of the middle ground between version 4 and version 5. I love how the computer is doing certain things on its own.. I just don't want it to be so obvious.

The 3GX is legit fellas. Its downright awesome and only getting better and better. Its so smooth.. that I dare say too smooth? I like a little blade bark.. but man, 5.0 is just seamless and truly respectable.

One other thing- is that I can NOT get the tail to slip on hard backward loops. No matter how fast its going and hard I push it. Well done Align. I don't have the dremel mod or anything. Its all stock.
[ame]http://youtu.be/Ind92S0UCu0[/ame]

[Mxracer3651]

I see what your talking about in the video.. a lot of wind but the 450 is staying very level in fast flight.. that's more important being a smaller heli in wind too.. it flys big.

[000pitch]

It really does fly bigger!... Its pretty remarkable. I'll work on some zoomed in videos with more action. I'm still kinda feeling this v5 out because it feels so much different than my other helicopters.

[rcflyersd]

Good to hear the performance of V5.0 is good in windy conditions and in FFF as here in my area, if you wait for the wind to quit blowing or gusting..... you don't fly. I believe I will give 5.0 a try in my trusty (guinea pig) 450Pro V2 before updating my other 3GX equipped helis.
I am also considering "pulling the trigger" and giving the new Gpro a try.

Mark