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nano CP X Blade nano CP X Helicopters Information and Help |
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01-19-2014, 05:12 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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Tame DX6i Settings for Nano Newcomers.
This setup will give you quite a tame helicopter so you can begin learning to fly in normal mode in doors! These settings calm the helicopter down considerably. The helicopter will not react anywhere near as violently to input, but will still respond reasonably crisp. I find when using a lot of expo with very tame settings, I'm lagging behind the helicopter. A small amount of expo on Aileron and Elevator 10 is nice, you don't want to be chasing the helicopter around with the stick, you want the helicopter to move when you tell it to move! I have also addressed the issue of overly sensitive collective. By reducing the pitch endpoints in the travel adjust menu. The Pitch curve provided will make the helicopter not only flyable in the house but outside the helicopter will have plenty of power to handle a light breeze. But newcomers should keep it indoors or outdoors only in zero wind conditions. As it bothered a lot of guys that my MCPX for newbies had no negative pitch I have used a more conventional pitch curve including a little negative pitch so when you do get outside it's available and you will be used to the collective! Get in the habit of using the throttle hold switch to kill the motor when the helicopter gets away on you rather than chopping the throttle! DX6i Radio settings for much tamer MCPX Model Type Helicopter Reverse Menu THRO-N AILE-N ELEV-N RUDD-N GYRO-N PITCH-R Swash Type 1 servo 90 Timer 4:30 Normal Mode all switches in 0 position. DR/EXPO AILE 0 100 Expo 10 ELEV 0 100 Expo 10 RUDD 0 100 INN Normal Mode all switches in 1 position. AILE 1 100 INN ELEV 1 100 INN RUDD 1 100 INN DX6i Travel Adjust Menu Make sure you catch the arrow on the DX6i screen! Hold rudder full right set > 100% Hold rudder full left set <100% Hold Aileron over full left and set <40% then full right >40% Hold Elevator full down set 40% full up set 40% Pitch throttle stick in lowest position 85% and max position 85% Throttle setup lowest position 100% highest position 100% ELEV arrow up 40 arrow down 40 ---- increase to 50% then 60% as you get used to the heli. AILE right 40 left 40 ------------------------ increase to 50% then 60% as you get used to the heli. RUDD arrow left 100 arrow right 100 PITCH arrow up 85 arrow down 85 Throttle lowest position 100% highest position 100% Throttle Curve L = 0 2=40 3=60 4=80 H=100 Use this Pitch Curve if you want a little negative pitch. L=30 2=40 3=50 4=75% H=100% Use this Pitch curve if you don't want negative pitch. L=50 2=50 3=50 4=75% H=100% Start out with 40% travel adjust Aileron and Elevator for a few flights until you are comfortable hovering around indoors. This setting is just for getting used to the helicopter for a few flights! Then bump up the Aileron and Elevator travel adjust up to 50% for a few days indoor practice hovering and moving around. Then when you are comfortable bump up the Aileron and Elevator travel adjust up to 50 % for a few days indoor practice hovering and moving around. You can also add a little more Expo say 15. As you get more comfortable with the helicopter continue to bump the Aileron and Elevator travel adjust up in units of 10 - 60 each time adding 5 Expo once you can handle the helicopter at 60, 30 Expo if you want you can now cut the Aileron and Elevator DR back to about 80% and bump the Aileron and Elevator Travel Adjust up to 100 Expo 30. You are more than ready to have at Idle up flying.
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Ron Petrolia Ontario Canada. Electric, MCPX-BL,450X, Trex 550E Nitro Hirobo SCEADU Evolution 50 Last edited by Imzzaudae; 01-23-2014 at 07:56 PM.. |
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01-19-2014, 08:10 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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When you find the hairy scorch mark you've found your lipos.
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01-19-2014, 11:01 PM | #3 (permalink) | |
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Reducing TA will not change the maximum tilt of the swash as that i controlled by the AS3X. I like to use the principle of TA, sub-trim and reveres are set once for the model (to ensure a consistent physical servo control limits in the TX - this applies to FBL controllers as well). Control trimming is done via DR, expo, curves, trim and mixes. 3 layers - stick / mix / servo.
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01-20-2014, 11:03 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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ArchmageAU and other experienced guys.
My answer may sound a little gruff. Please don't be offended. The short version is simply. Because it works! When I created the tame settings using travel adjust for MCPX, I ended up in a long drawn out debate as to why? John Salts book said don't do this and this guy said that's wrong don't do it that way your not supposed to do it that way. Bla bla bla I'm going to explain it, but I have other work to do and I'm not going to be sucked into another long debate about it. Quite frankly if guys don't want to use these settings, they are free to set there helicopter up however they like! I won't be offended. This is not about you or any of the hundreds of experienced pilots on the forum. This is about limiting the response of a helicopter designed to react violently to input so that very inexperienced pilots have a chance to learn how to fly it. That's all. When you use the Rate menu and Expo to calm down the helicopter. Cutting the rate back to 40% does soften the feeling of the stick. But it allows full throw of the Aileron and elevator servos and the flybarless access to a tremendous amount of pitch throw ether side of center. So the helicopter can still react very violently to input! Imposing an absolute limit of servo throw using endpoints decreases the maximum pitch the flybarless can tilt the swash - PERIOD. No matter what the cyclic input. This also reduces cyclic sensitivity buy a factor of about 10, I'm sorry I have not had time to build a jig and get you cyclic pitch numbers. I will eventually and post them. I have been flying the helicopter with these settings myself in my living room and having an inexperienced 120SR pilot come over and fly them, Then getting input from him as to what he feels comfortable with. Guys, what it all boils down to is, these settings work. Fly them and see what you think. I wish I could share with you the hundreds of PM's I have received from new collective pitch helicopter pilots learning how to fly MCPX from all over the world during the last 2 years saying thanks they can actually fly there helicopter! As for Dual rates. I have been flying helicopters for quite some time now and fixed wing for 20 years pryer to helicopter. I have yet to change a rate switch positions on a transmitter. Not ever! Quite simply. If you take the time to set the helicopter up correctly in the first place, dual rates are a completely unnecessary bling feature transmitter manufacturers came up with to make transmitters cool and are a complication newbies don't really need to be dealing with, but that's just my opinion. Hope there are no hard feelings and this explanation ends the great debate before it begins! Ron
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Ron Petrolia Ontario Canada. Electric, MCPX-BL,450X, Trex 550E Nitro Hirobo SCEADU Evolution 50 |
01-20-2014, 03:02 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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I know jack, but from my reading, I think you are right.
Your way probably works. But that is not the intended use of the servo limit settings versus DR. I guess the real question is whether the two different methods actually result in different flying. The OP's suggested lowered swash range available to the FBL sounds valid, but what do I know? If the OP is correct, in the traditional method, we limit the pilot's commands but not the heli's capabilities. obi |
01-20-2014, 03:49 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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Tame DX6i Settings for Nano Newcomers.
Limiting TA does not limit the distance the FBL unit can tilt. It limits the maximum roll rate you can command the FBL unit to move.
Try it. Set TA to 2% on elevator and aileron, disconnect the motor (AS3X will not go int FBL mode unless throttle engaged), power the nano and give it throttle and full roll. The swash will continue to tilt until maximum. Yes limiting TA will work to tame the model, but it's the wrong way to teach someone to do it. Would you mechanically adjust your car to limit turning circle if you had a programmable steering wheel? btw. F3C pilots (heli and fixed wing) adjust BOTH DR and expo for different maneuvers. They do not adjust TA once set to prevent servo binding issues. Please advise adjust DR. I do in the DX6i for beginners (and provide reasons for it). It's the way it is intended to be used. Sorry to debate this with you in the open.
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01-20-2014, 05:11 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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I already told you.
I don't care how it works, or weather you agree that it's the right way to do it or you don't agree! It Works! What part it works do you not get! The bottom line is, it makes the helicopter flyable for guys just starting out and that's what matters here! After a couple of weeks hovering around the living room guys are flying with Travel adjust set back to 100 using DR at 80 or 100 and 30 Expo. I appreciate what you are saying ArchmageAU You don't want to do it this way. I already told you. You are free to use what ever settings you want! Create very tame settings for Nano and post them so guys can try them I will link them. But lets not argue and hijack the thread.
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Ron Petrolia Ontario Canada. Electric, MCPX-BL,450X, Trex 550E Nitro Hirobo SCEADU Evolution 50 |
01-20-2014, 05:16 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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I think a very valid reason/use for Dual Rates: you can use it for 1) Regular flying and for 2) Landing. This can be useful for beginner/intermediates (people just out of the noob stage), all the way up to expert (I assume). I am certainly not an expert, but I can definitely already see the need for fast response (100% DR) when I'm trying to flip and tic toc, but then want to hit a switch and get some super precise landing abilities.
For a noob, i could see them setting Dual Rates for the landing vs flying options, or just setting it at DR1 60% and DR0 70% giving them the opportunity to "try" the higher rates for 30seconds before they commit to an entire flight of the higher rates. But stuff like how to set DR (or if you set a DR up at all) is more of a personal preference than a recommendation.
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01-20-2014, 08:02 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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The part you seem to miss is the guys we are talking about. 1/2 of them have never flown any helicopter or programed a DX6i, don't know what Travel adjust does or does not do, they have no idea what Expo or Dual rates do and they don't care!
Many are so bogged down in technical data the last thing they need is another bible full of stuff they don't understand thrown in front of them. What they need is simplicity! ( Do this and it will work ) That's exactly what I have given them, along with simple instructions on how to progress to a conventional setup as there flying skills progress. Understand that all of the technical information including your work on DX6i will be covered in separate documents and linked to a master as this tutorial comes together. I asked you to leave it alone, not hijack the thread and to turn this into a big debate for a reason . Now the first what 9 posts in the thread are exactly what I asked you not to turn it into! Thanks guys
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Ron Petrolia Ontario Canada. Electric, MCPX-BL,450X, Trex 550E Nitro Hirobo SCEADU Evolution 50 Last edited by Imzzaudae; 01-20-2014 at 10:01 PM.. |
01-21-2014, 12:01 AM | #10 (permalink) |
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I am new to Helis, my first cp was a nano, I tried everything and could not fly it till I dropped the TA to 40, as I got better I brought it up 10% at a time.
For a beginner this was the best advise I ever go on here. |
01-21-2014, 04:22 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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When I first got mine (last week), I adjusted the pitch/throttle curves to semi-mimic a fixed pitch heli.
With the DX6i, that meant a pitch curve of something like 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 - i.e. no negative pitch and only 90% maximum pos pitch. Throttle curve was linear 0-100). I'm still working on getting in the habit of NOT throttle chopping in a crash (wrong way), and using the hold (right way). So until I cleanly get in that habit, I have the ability to "chop" the throttle AND hit the throttle hold. Then I set the DR/Expo to around (0): 50%dr/25% expo, (1): 80%dr/25%expo. And so far, I don't really use F.mode (stunt). I just fly in "normal" mode. These are the settings that allowed me to jump right in and hover the Nano relatively quickly, like within a battery or 2 (coming from a 120SR and a mCX2). These settings aren't intended for anything else but to get me flying the Nano quickly. I'll be adjusting as my skills/comfort level increase. But, like I said, I don't plan to keep these settings very long. I don't intend to do any crazy 3D, but I do see myself inverted and doing loops/rolls, etc...(sport style flying) and certainly getting a bigger heli, maybe 300x size... Nothing crazy. Especially now knowing how much you can tame a 3D capable machine with DR's/Expo and pitch/throttle curves, I see a 300x in my future for sure. I see Ron's settings as step 1 in "baby steps to get you flying a 3D CP heli". I see my settings are more like step 1/2...
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01-22-2014, 12:34 AM | #12 (permalink) |
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I am a super noob
I will be trying your recommendations in just a few min. I was lucky to get mine off the ground today without breaking anything, using the stock dx6i settings.
I was just curious if you recommend any mix settings and what about the gyro settings? current stock dx6i gyro is 0: 50% and 1: 50% Will this do? and by the way this is my first CP heli and I was looking for the beginners guide like you have recommended. I am part of other forums and I know how you feel when you set something up for the dummies and then the critique comes in form the pros that have forgotten how us noobs know absolutely nothing and need this supper dumbed down version. Thanks for defending your position! I will be sure to post back my thoughts of your set up. |
01-22-2014, 05:39 AM | #13 (permalink) | ||
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There is even a sticky in Newbies area on setting up the DX6i (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=580508) with a step by step tutorial on how to program a DX6i. I was surprised this was never mentioned by the OP.
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01-22-2014, 05:02 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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DO THESE SETTINGS IF YOU'RE FIRST TIME CP!
Imzzaudae,
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! I just back form the park, and even with the light breeze (2 mph tops) I was able to control the nano very well! I could not do 360 turns yet, but hovering and out and returns with the nose away at all times were a breeze! I CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH!! Your settings are exactly what I needed to get over the nervousness of flying it. I HIGHLY recommend these dummy proof Dx6i settings!!! And thank you for the directions on how to step it up once i can fly it like my MSR. This is exactly what the Super Rookie like me needs! Question…Would these setting be recommended once I have the balls to fire up my Mcpx BL again? Archamge, Yes that is excellent info as well. Being the noob that I am to the Dx6i, I'm not even sure what DR& Expo, travel, and how all that other stuff really effects the helicopter at all. I did read those other posts but still very confusing. I did not see the fight school thread. But I am now glued to that topic as well Thank you all very much for helping me! I love Micro Helis! And this just made my world so much brighter!! Now if I can only deprogram my throttle chop habit form the MSR I will be all good! |
01-22-2014, 06:30 PM | #15 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
DX6i info: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=580508 I'm also working on "deprogramming" the throttle chop habit. You can set up your throttle/pitch curves like I did so it mimics a fixed pitch in "normal" mode (throttle curve: 0,25,50,75,100 - pitch curve 50,60,70,80,90 i.e. no negative pitch). Then if you forget and still chop the throttle, you won't drive it into the ground with negative pitch and you still cut the throttle. You might try just spooling up the heli and hitting the HOLD right before it lifts off a few times before you actually fly. This will help train your muscle memory so your brain doesn't have to remember to tell your finger what to do in a crash. Do this for each battery, and I'm betting you'll get it down pretty quick.
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------------------- Blade 450x V2, Nano CPx, 120SR, mCX2, Scout, DX6i. Just assume I have others, I probably won't update this every time I get a new heli... ;-) |
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01-22-2014, 11:12 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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Hello Catstrike
MCPX BL settings question.
You will quickly out grow the beginner settings I have posted for Nano. As mentioned they are only to help very low time guys get a little stick time. As soon as you can hover the helicopter you need to bump the gain up 10 and then make the change to 100% Travel adjust DR an Expo settings as described so you have more control of Nano. It won't be very long and you will have a good feel for flying the helicopter. Then it's just a matter of programing MCPX-BL into your DX6i with a little tamer pitch and throttle curve than in the BL manual so it no longer over reacts to input and you can fly it. The thing is, once you can fly nano, you can fly BL, they fly exactly the same only BL is a little bigger and flies much better outside! You will not believe the sound BL makes as it goes snarling buy you at 100% power! That will put a grin on your face. Don't be afraid of MCPX-BL it's all in the transmitter settings! My normal mode settings for BL are. Travel adjust everything is 100% accept pitch and it's 75% both ways! Normal mode. Very tame rate switch position 0 Aileron 0 DR 50 Expo 30 Elevator 0 DR 50 Expo 30 Rudder 0 100 No Expo Normal mode. A little more control authority rate switch position 1 Aileron 1 DR 65 Expo 30 Elevator 1 DR 65 Expo 30 Rudder 1 100 No Expo Normal mode. Throttle curve 0 60 80 80 80 Pitch curve 25 25 50 75 100 take not of reverse pitch, so when your up high you can push it down, just another tool in the tool box! Stunt mode. Throttle 80% until you are used to the helicopter, then 100% Pitch curve 0 25 50 75 100 Watch the tail. MCPX Bl has an adjustable tail gyro! Service the main shaft and swash bearings first they will be dry! Run the tail gyro about 90 and see how it feels! Adjust the gain up or down .5 at a time until it holds but does not wag. You should be able to go from hover to full up collective as fast as you can move the stick and the tail hold rock soled. Do that outdoors as the helicopter vanishes! Look for it about 100' up climbing at 500 ft a minute. Like I said. Once you can fly Nano, you can fly MCPX BL no problem! Hope this helps. Ron
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Ron Petrolia Ontario Canada. Electric, MCPX-BL,450X, Trex 550E Nitro Hirobo SCEADU Evolution 50 Last edited by Imzzaudae; 01-23-2014 at 09:20 PM.. |
01-25-2014, 04:58 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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This post and you guys are awesome! I even bought the pheonix sim and am doing the described training program as you all recommended.
My sills are progressing very fast and trainsitioning to real flight no problem. Thank you so much! |
02-09-2014, 03:25 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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Thanks Imzzaudae, I don't think good pilots remember the thrill of just getting in the air and flying without having to go pick up the bird. Bob
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02-09-2014, 06:04 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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Seriously considering the jump, but I’ve still not mastered my mSRX yet...This is tempting though. Wondering how “tame” it is for us newbies to CP...?
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Thanks! Scott Spectrum DX6i, Nano QX, 200 QX, 350QX & 120SR (X2) |
02-09-2014, 06:30 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
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Its a durable bird like the MSRx so its probably the best CP trainer out there. The MCPx is good too but not quite as durable in my experience. Close though. |
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