3G BIBLE( Calling EVERYONE!,with 3g tips)

[jondabear]

So here we find ourselves 6 or so months into a new product . The road has been a trying one at best and now with the release of the software and gui interface we can actually make these things fly like we want. Heres a bit of help for all to enjoy and add to.

1.) PURPOSE of THREAD: To give our best suggestions and help to the new guys or not so new guys, by spreading all the little tweeks and such that weve found.

2.) Hope: this thread will be used to further the understanding and application of the 3g systme for the end result of our greater enjoyment within this hobby.

3.) Sticky: This will hopefully be posted as a sticky and suggestions as well as new tech. will flow through these pages as it becomes available. (Again, this is only to help, Those of us who choose to share our knowledge should do so without the expectation of anything in return thus fulfilling the status of .......GURU! So here goes nothing!)

Heres my best 5 tips for now. More to be added and questions are welcomed.

1.) 3m 4010 double stick industrial strength tape(NITRO). Heres why, damping properties are just rt for the sensor, yet its thin enough to allow the sensor to be "quick " reacting in the air. Its also dense enough that it wont SQUISH like a foam pad. GOOD STUFF.

2.) Metal plate (for nitros) good to weigh the sensor down and provide a bit more stability and rigidity. Seems to also disperse some unwanted vibes from the engine. (I run the 4010 tape,plate,4010 tape combo and have been since I first did the wpulling kick......thread.)

3.) Velcro strap- Simple yet effective. Sensor with above combo seems to work well with a "HARD " mount and the strap helps with this.

4.)TAIL ,TAIL, and TAIL!- Heres my magic brew for MY tail. I set my endpoints to the EXTREMES! JR9303 is 150 and 150. Then I go into the d/r,expo menu and adjust down the value untill i have a good workable tail piro speed. Mine are something like 90-97% depending on my flight mode.(yes I like a quick tail. LOL>)

Dont be afraid of GAIN on your 3g for your tail. I have run the old addage of "as low as I can without hunt" and it proved to be very wrong for me. Higher GAIN has given me a MUCH MORE consisten tail to work with., (NOTE:If all these things are GOOD to GO to begin with...youll have a easier time in the GUI menus when you really get to use and understand them.)

So YES! I have set my heli up WAY before any of the software updates or gui was even out! Ran version 1 for months . NO problems after I learned how to use this system.

5.) 3 IN 1 -..........this is a perspective thing and is just how I look at it. Try to view the 3g as 3 TAIL gyro in ONE unit. If ya know HOW to properly set up a tail then the rest should be elementary for ya. Left and rt axis, one gyro.......forward and back, one gyro.....tail left and rt, one gyro..... I always break it up into sections and eliminate the problems within that section systematically. If i find interaction within 2 sections then I resort to the default and start over. Troubleshooting technique I learned from 21+ years of being an electronics field tech.

So there it is. ITS a START and will hopefully bring the suggestions and help FLOWING in from our local GURUS. Again.....this thread is only to help. So if its not constructive to those that are in need of something like this......dont add it!

KEEP smackin! PEACE! ..............JONDABEAR

BTW- electrics are a bit different so Ill let another GURU touch on that one. (Ive heard that the Spartan tape and plates work well. Any truth to it?)

[Vinger]

Another great thread for setup info is here http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/sho...d.php?t=133423

[jondabear]

Met some of those guys at iRCHA. Thay were AWSOME . Hopefully we can get em to post a few things in here. Peace!

[akamullen]

I think a lot of people having issues, are ones with vibrations. on my 5 3G machines, the one thing that had to be worked out was vibration. Make sure you have very limited vibrations. On mine I removed main and tail blades spun the heli up in idle up and put my finger on the 3G sensor. If it is vibrating try dif tape combos and also make sure that all shafts are strait(even a tiny bend in the main shaft or tail shaft will give vibration that you can not see, but you will feel it.) also balance the main blades as well as the tail blades. I have found a couple sets of tail blades that I have had were out of balance.

I only have electrics so can only imagine that vibration on a nitro would be more difficult to cure. The one thing I noticed when I have had high resonace vibs on a 3G machine was all 3 gyros tried to hunt, or drift. If you start with a vibration free heli your 3G experience will be much more enjoyable.

[Michaelinpr]

Here is my contribution regarding your third tip for use on a 600 trex. Check attached pic. I have seen guys strap the sensor down in the other direction and with zip straps but that doesnt cut it for me.

I just marked out the location of the sensor, removed it and dremeled out some slits wide enough for the strap. Some thicker straps will bend the gyro tray because of the close proximity to the cyclic servos. It is not a problem as long as it bends it evenly and the sensor stays mounted level.

BTW How do I embed a photo into a post instead of just attaching it?

[jondabear]

Just read the ARC heli write up and to simplify......They got it rt!

Forgot about this one. (Been doing it for a while now, since v1 at least)

Heres the long short of it. I used to set my cyclic to the 14% max and the same with my collective. From there I would start to dial it down (after setting it this way in DIR mode) Untill it felt and flew rt for me. I havent checked my pitch or cyclic rates in a long time but I know that i set em to max to start with.

Im a feel flier and this works well for me. AGAIN.....al credit to ARC HELI for reminding me of this. Thanx Guys. Great link up above, well worth the read. PEACE!

[HiroboFreak]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Another great thread for setup info is here http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/sho...d.php?t=133423

That would be my thread.
No point cut and pasting here now.

I hope it helps.

Dennis.

[jondabear]

NICE! So hirobofreak has added! Credit given wwhere credit is due! Nice write up man!

Who's the man?..............Hirobofreak. this guy was here wqhen I needed help. Now he's here again! Thanx man!

[edsel.labao]

Hirobofreak is a great source of info. I followed many of his advice.

I have nothing out of the ordinary to share but a great custom mounting method I did on my 600 ESP.

I used the stock 600 battery plate. Cut to length and then notched for the strap.

[mickeyjohnston]

I'll add more later but what is very important with any FBL system is having the CG correct in the heli. When the CJ is off, the system is always trying to correct for the heli being unbalanced. This will cause bobbles as well.

Check for inter-action while in Dir mode. If you don’t have your servo arms perfectly 90°, this will require the system to make more corrections. Once your servo arms are correct, use a tool to for making your swash level, your eye is not accurate enough.

Make sure your have 0 phasing. I like checking this with the head off and putting a fly bar through the Jesus bolt hole on the main shaft.

Make sure the sensor is level and perfecting square in the heli. Be careful strapping the sensor down. I have seen over time the sensor the strap is creating more pressure on one end of the sensor. This can cause it to be uneven over time.

Buy the interface kit.

Worn parts such as swash plates, ball links and worn servos create issues as well. I've posted videos of my 450 and you can see it was flying well. I changed to the copter x black angel swash, which has zero slop. I was able to increase my total gain for AIR and ELE.

For the Trex500, people running head speeds above 2900, I recommend adding another bearing in the torque tube. This will reduce the vibrations of the torque tube. My personal opinion is the 500 torque tube wasn't designed for head speeds above 2900 without flexing.

Running your rudder gain to low in the radio can cause problems. You’re better off to run it high in the radio and turn down the gain in the software. In the software you can adjust the total and lock gains. Some people swear by setting the tail up in rate mode so that the heli doesn’t drift. I’m still experimenting to determine if this is better or not.

All of the gains are proportional to head speed. The higher the head speed, less gain.

When you run your piro optimum adjustment or Piro compensate gain above 60%. The system will fight you in some maneuvers.

I wouldn’t recommend running your stop gains above 10%. As a test I turn it up to 80% on the bench and felt the servos get hot.

Don’t run expo in both the software and the radio. Pick on or the other.

Your ELE and AIL values need to be the same in the swash mix menu. Adjust your roll rates in the software.

Adjust your total gain first before adjusting your total gains.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Aew8H9YYU&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2z9tb0HKa0&feature=related[/ame]

[jondabear]

Hot DA#N!............We got a BIG HITTER thread! All the Gurus are coming outta the woodwork!

MUCH respect and PROPS to mickeyjohnston, for the vids FLYING!( AWSOME!) and the great wrire up!

ZOOMTT- nice mods!

This thread is definately gonna be a keeper!

YOU guys are the ones making it happen!

[jondabear]

Forgot a simple one. Get the LATEST updates for your soft/firmware from the align site and reload to your units. Latest one was in june. Peace!

[jondabear]

HERE goes another simple one..........Good set of FLYBARLESS blades. Really makes things easier. Waiting on these 3G blades by ALIGN. Once I get a set Ill report back. PEACE!

[rubbersoul]

EDGE blades noticeably improved roll rate on my setup.

[jondabear]

EDGE blades are the BOMB DIGGIDY!. I can carry anything I want and one of the choices I made was EDGE. PEACE!

[markleyland]

Thought I would post this link to two very helpful videos. The first one explains the 3G head setup and shows how to set for 0 phasing (11 minutes into the vid) which beginners would not necessarily know. The second is the 3G set up by Bert Kammerer.

http://www.helituning.com/index.php/...onversion.html

[jondabear]

AWSOME! Another great addition. Watched the vids myself and actually found a few tips that Ill b using myself. Love the FLYBAR thing.

All praise to MARKLEYLAND for posting it up. Thanx man!

PEACE!

[tomcarpenter]

blame vibrations? my heli is smooth yet I get random vibrations.
First fix; use a gyro, perfect.
2nd fix ditched 3G for BeastX, awesome. if there are horrible vibrations in my heli (which there aren't) sure doesn't bother the beastx

All 4 of my trexs have random kicks with 3G. 2nd BEastX is on order

[SkinWalk3r]

[QUOTE=mickeyjohnston;2292957]Your ELE and AIL values need to be the same in the swash mix menu. [/QUOTE]

in the radio I am assuming ?

what if they are not. My aile is 53 % and my ele is 50 %. what now ?

[jondabear]

Funny how you bought the SAME tech in a different form. Beast x IS the tech behind 3g.

Swash values? Ive always kept em the same. If not then it just feels funny.

Good luck with the x. Hope it worksa out for ya. Sold your 3g electronics yet?
Let me know. PEACE!