Tying power supplies together

[KiloXray]

Time for another question in my quest to put a charge system together that is perfect for me.

The charger proposed is am iCharger 406 duo.

I have a Meanwell RSP-1000-27 power supply. If I was to buy a Meanwell RSP-1000-24, can I tie them together to have 2,000W of input to the 406?

Here is the data sheet that includes both of them. http://www.meanwell.com/search/RSP-1...-1000-spec.pdf

There are a few specs that are a little different, but I don't know enough about this stuff to know if those differences will affect their ability to be wired up together. I suspect it will be just fine.

Also, if they can be wired together. Is there anything I need to do first? Something with the grounding of the two cases? How would I go about wiring them together?

[RedOctobyr]

It looks doable. Follow the info on page 5 of the document you linked to, in section

6. Current Sharing with Remote Sensing

Their output voltages must be adjusted within 0.2V of each other, and then the supplies connected per the instructions.

Their voltage adjustment ranges overlap, up to 26.4V, and down to 24.0V. I might pick 26.0-26.2V as the voltage you set both to.

It doesn't mention anything about using different supply models together. But if you can adjust the voltages to be the same, that sounds like it would meet the requirements they list.

Meanwell could probably confirm if this is a good/bad idea.

[cyclo]

It does look like those PSUs support current sharing (parallel connection). However why not get the exact same model instead of a different one? On page 3 it says the CS pins (#7) should be connected together and on the last page of the linked manual it says up to four can be connected in sharing mode.

But I agree with RedOctobyr, I would confirm this with Meanwell first. Hopefully they will respond to email inquries. I think ProgressiveRC also sells those PSUs, maybe you can also ask them.

[RedOctobyr]

Good point. If you can get another -27, you'd also benefit from having the higher voltage available. The 406 can take up to 30V. I run my 24V-nominal PS at 28.5V for my 308Duo, down just a little from the PS' max output of 28.8V.

At 28.5V, I stay above the 6S buck/boost transition, so my generator is happy. And I need "only" 50A input, vs 60A input, to make the full 1300W output. Keeping the input wires and charger a little bit cooler, and helping to stay below the input current limit of 60A. Getting closer to 30V offers some benefits.

If you want 1400W output from a 406Duo, assuming 90% efficiency, you need to supply 26V minimum.

[cyclo]

BTW RedOctobyr, my TDK Lamda is still at 24 volts... I haven't touched it since I built the charging station. I haven't even upgraded the firmware on my 308DUO... It works fine as it is so I decided to leave well enough alone.

I did a quick glance on the TDK manual and it turns out it is also parallel capable (up to two of them). One can be set as the master and the other the slave. I don't intend to do parallel as 1500W is more than enough for me but I am just wondering how safe it is to run one PSU off one household circuit (15A) and the other on another 15A circuit.

[KiloXray]

Good info guys. I suppose I could just get another -27. That makes sense. They run about the same cost as a -24.

Ultimately, I am trying to decide between getting a second 1000W supply or going with a single 2000W supply (and selling the single I have).

As of right now the pros and cons I see to having the 2000W single supply:

Pros
- Saves probably close to 2.5kg+ on the whole setup. (each PS weighs 2kg, + weight of bigger case)
- It will fit in a smaller case, save space and increasing portability

Cons
- Cost
- If the single 2000W craps out, I am just SOL until fixed or replaced, unlike the 2x 1000W, where if one craps out the other will certainly get my by until the other is good to go.

Anything else I should take into consideration?

[RedOctobyr]

Originally Posted by cyclo

I don't intend to do parallel as 1500W is more than enough for me but I am just wondering how safe it is to run one PSU off one household circuit (15A) and the other on another 15A circuit.

Nice, I hope yours is still working well. My setup (same PS and 308Duo) has been doing great. I have upgraded my charger FW, and tweaked the PS voltage, but same hardware. I'm looking to further slow the fan in my PS, to reduce the noise a little further. I've slowed the fan already, and it's much better than stock, but still somewhat loud, and the PS has never even gotten warm. So I think it could safely be reduced further.

What are you referring to, in terms of safety? Things like starting a fire? Or input-voltage stability for the charger, if one supply shut down (maybe you trip that circuit breaker)?

I happened to be looking through the TDK manual the other day and saw the section about running two supplies in parallel. They have you put a diode on the output from each supply. Implying to me that one supply may not even know what the other one is doing, or may not care if the other one shuts down.

For voltage stability, both chargers would be set to the same output voltage, so if one parallel supply shut down, I don't think the charger would see much change for the input voltage. As opposed to wiring supplies in series, where you'd go from 24V to 12V (bad).

KiloXray, these sorts of supplies should be quite reliable. Hopefully a PS failure is not a big likelihood. I'd go for a -27 if it were me, rather than a -24, if pricing is manageable. No matter how you cut it, 2000W of Meanwell is going to be expensive. A single supply is smaller & simpler to wire, but it comes down to what you want to deal with, I suppose.

If you were concerned about a PS failure leaving you stranded, you could buy just a single server power supply. A DPS-1200FB, just using one, would supply 12V, 75A, 900W. You can use 60A, so 12V * 60A = 720W input. So a cheap server supply could still keep you going, with respectable power, while dealing with a Meanwell issue.

I just looked on eBay. Another option would be getting the same TDK Lambda 1500W supply that cyclo and I bought last year. Someone has one for $215 on eBay at the moment, with free shipping from Texas. That's more than we paid a year ago, but 1500W, adjustable up to 28.8V, for less than a single 1000W Meanwell RSP. Getting 1400W from a 406Duo would require about 1560W, so you'd limit yourself by a tiny amount, but not much, especially considering the cost savings.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TDK-Lambda-H...item51c6375ade

This is where I'd posted the info about these initially:
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...69#post5431269

These are industrial-grade supplies, they sell for about $1,300 new. Just figured I'd mention it as an option.

[KiloXray]

RedOctobyr, Thanks a ton for the info. As always, you are the man with the answers!

The PS you linked me to on ebay kinda sketches me out a little. It says "Notes: This item has not been tested. No manuals, cords/cables, or additional items are included if not listed or shown." I would guess that it is probably fine, but I'd be lying if I told you I was totally comfortable with that.

To be totally honest, I have more money than I have "want to tinker or cobble together a charging system". It's just not something i'm interested in. Doesn't sound like a fun project. Being overseas and in a place that I don't speak the language can make trying to find bits an pieces of things a major PITA. Easy is what I want.

I also really want it to be as small of a package as possible because I drive a small car. For those reasons, the Meanwell 2000W in one of Progressive's hardline cases is very appealing.

I suppose I can always just keep my -27 as a back up if the 2000-24 fails (doubtful) I also have a 306b, that I currently run on the -27. That could be the "house" setup. The 406 duo w/2000W can be the field setup.

For that matter, I also have a 206b w/350W Junsi that can act as a backup home unit. I could sell the 306/-27 to offset the cost of the 406/2000.

Decisions, decisions, LOL.

[RedOctobyr]

No worries, no need to justify/defend the route you want to take. Everyone's situation is different, and being in an country with a language situation must make DIY-type things a lot tougher.

A single 2000W would be a more-straightforward solution. I hadn't looked at the details of the eBay auction, agreed that the notes add an element of risk.

I'm not sure if Progressive sells a ready-made case with a 406 and a supply >1000W. There's this, but the 1000W PS would limit your output:
http://www.progressiverc.com/the-har...00w-combo.html

Maybe they have a different combo with a bigger PS, or perhaps they could do a 1-off with a bigger PS?

I only have 2 helis, so two sizes of packs to charge. But I really haven't used my 106B+ since getting my 308Duo. Depending on how many different things you need to charge up, you might be able to use the 406Duo almost exclusively. I did keep my 106B+ as a backup, or in case I need to charge 3 things at once. But maybe you could consolidate to just the 406 + one other charger. My little charger is quite a bit slower, but it would still let me keep flying if the big one had an issue.

[KiloXray]

Yeh man, I have tried to DIY some stuff here already and always frustrated by how hard it is to find what I am looking for. I might as well be illiterate. It makes me much more tolerant of non-English speakers in The States.

That Progressive setup is exactly what I was looking at and I have no doubt that they will sub in a 2000-24 in place of the 1000-24. I just need to make a choice. Whatever I buy, I just want to be "set" for a really long time. I don't want to have to think about charging. I really want it to just run in the background, if you know what I mean.

I'm for sure going to keep my 206b/350. It is an awesome little travel set. In fact I am out of the country right now and brought it with me. It's perfect for anything 4S 2200mah and smaller. It fits in my radio case with my DX9. I travel pretty often.

I think when I get back to Germany, I am going to convert and old 450X aluminum case into a "travel/grab and go" type of setup. I think it has enough space to fit a DX8, the 206b/350, a 180cfx, a 300 class heli, and batteries for both helis. That is something I can just leave in the car all the time.

[cyclo]

Originally Posted by KiloXray

RedOctobyr, Thanks a ton for the info. As always, you are the man with the answers!

The PS you linked me to on ebay kinda sketches me out a little. It says "Notes: This item has not been tested. No manuals, cords/cables, or additional items are included if not listed or shown." I would guess that it is probably fine, but I'd be lying if I told you I was totally comfortable with that.

To be totally honest, I have more money than I have "want to tinker or cobble together a charging system". It's just not something i'm interested in. Doesn't sound like a fun project. Being overseas and in a place that I don't speak the language can make trying to find bits an pieces of things a major PITA. Easy is what I want.

I also really want it to be as small of a package as possible because I drive a small car. For those reasons, the Meanwell 2000W in one of Progressive's hardline cases is very appealing.

I suppose I can always just keep my -27 as a back up if the 2000-24 fails (doubtful) I also have a 306b, that I currently run on the -27. That could be the "house" setup. The 406 duo w/2000W can be the field setup.

For that matter, I also have a 206b w/350W Junsi that can act as a backup home unit. I could sell the 306/-27 to offset the cost of the 406/2000.

Decisions, decisions, LOL.

FWIW, that is the same seller I bought my TDK Lamba from almost a year ago. I believe the notes have been there all along. I am not even sure if the TDK I got was used but even if it was it was in perfect operating condition when I got it.

The only modding I did was to short certain pins out for proper operation along with attaching a toggle switch to the pin combination which can serve as an on-off switch. I outlined all these steps on the TDK-Lambda/iCharger 308DUO build thread I did. The TDK Lambda PSU is heavy though but it is no bigger than comparable 1500W PSUs.

If you do decide to get it, just ask the seller to improve the packaging a little bit more Mine came packaged in a carton box with thick paper just surrounding one side. The TDK Lambda is tough though and was not damaged at all during the shipping.

[KiloXray]

Originally Posted by cyclo

FWIW, that is the same seller I bought my TDK Lamba from almost a year ago. I believe the notes have been there all along. I am not even sure if the TDK I got was used but even if it was it was in perfect operating condition when I got it.

The only modding I did was to short certain pins out for proper operation along with attaching a toggle switch to the pin combination which can serve as an on-off switch. I outlined all these steps on the TDK-Lambda/iCharger 308DUO build thread I did. The TDK Lambda PSU is heavy though but it is no bigger than comparable 1500W PSUs.

If you do decide to get it, just ask the seller to improve the packaging a little bit more Mine came packaged in a carton box with thick paper just surrounding one side. The TDK Lambda is tough though and was not damaged at all during the shipping.

That makes me feel a little better. I wonder if that thing would fit in the progressive hardline case with a 406b.

I'm a little surprised by you saying it is heavy. The only specs i could find on it said that it is 1lb, (which is crazy light). The RSP-2000-24 is 2kg!

[RedOctobyr]

Ha, yeah, same seller as last year, I didn't even notice I guess he did OK selling them at $140 last year, and upped his price. You could ask if he guarantees against DOA, at least. Mine actually came packaged very well, with a whole bunch of foam pieces around the supply.

Mine weighs 8.2 lbs (3.7 kg). Whatever listed 1lb is mis-informed. Spec sheet:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/ftp/specs/hws1500.pdf

These are the notes from last year's auction:

Condition: Used. Comes in non-original packaging. This supply is in Good cosmetic condition aside from a few light scratches and shallow dent/ding action on the sides. The unit you receive may have removable jumper wires installed, no jumper wires, or have solder links (as shown) on the programming terminals.


Notes: This supply is in Good working condition. We applied power and gave a quick check to verify proper output voltage. No other testing was done. No manuals, cords/cables, or additional items are included if not listed or shown.

Mine was in new condition, looked unused. No dust on the fan blades or anything.

[KiloXray]

Well, I bought a 406 duo in a black friday sale. I also bought a Progressive hardline case, with a fan and all.

So, I decided that for now I am just going to rock my Meanwell -27 on the 406duo in that case. Perhaps that will meets my needs for the time being, simply because I am gaining the flexibility of two channels.

Later down the road, I will add another PS or a bigger one perhaps.

Thanks for the advice, help guys.

[RedOctobyr]

Very nice, enjoy! I bought mine from Progressive last year on BF.

Depending on what you're charging, 1000W may be fine. With efficiency, you'll have about 900W to play with. Which is 36A on 6S.

I would set the limits in the charger for the PS setup, to avoid overloading the supply and shutting it down. The charger won't like it if the supply shuts off during a charge.

Sent using Tapatalk.

[KiloXray]

OnlyFineHelis is selling the Mean Well RSP-2000-24 for only $250. I couldn't resist and bought one. Between this, and the 406 Duo in a PRC Hardline case, I can't imagine needing any more charging gear for years to come.

He still has one left if anyone is interested. That is a HELL of a deal. I could not find them for under $400 anywhere else. I have no idea how he can sell them so cheap.

http://onlyfinehelis.com/power-suppl...a-power-supply

[RedOctobyr]

That is a good deal!

Though the URL says 1000W, not 2000W. I realize the actual page shows everything as 2000W. I just hope it's not a website goof of some kind.

Sent using Tapatalk.

[KiloXray]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

That is a good deal!

Though the URL says 1000W, not 2000W. I realize the actual page shows everything as 2000W. I just hope it's not a website goof of some kind.

Sent using Tapatalk.

I noticed that as well, and I agree. But he also is selling the RSP-1000-27 for only $150, so the 2000 at $100 more makes sense.

Also, on the product page it has both the product name and the "model number" typed out. I am guessing those would have had to be entered manually and separately, so I doubt it is a typo. My guess is that the 1000W URL is a place holder.

[Only Fine Helis]

Hey guys,

Yes, it is the rsp2000 that you got and not the 1000.

I will have several more available at that price in a week or two.

If you are interested, you can email me and I can put you on a list to contact when I get them.

Thanks

[KiloXray]

Originally Posted by Only Fine Helis

Hey guys,

Yes, it is the rsp2000 that you got and not the 1000.

I will have several more available at that price in a week or two.

If you are interested, you can email me and I can put you on a list to contact when I get them.

Thanks

Oh nice! I don't know how you do it Shannon, but I appreciate it! Well done! A+, total endorsement!