Logo XXtreme 480 picture and video shortage?!? ***PICTURES ADDED***

[mahbouni]

@Dave, please can you measure the maximum dimensions of LiPo that can fit in the frames

[dahld]

@ mahbouni,

Good question many probably will want to know.

Front opening is 50mm wide by 60mm tall. This measurement is consistent back to the pinion, which sits 110mm back from the front of the frames...then you loose 10mm in height back to the main shaft.

But, don't plan on trying to stuff a battery larger than 4000mah into the tray, as the heli starts to get a little nose heavy with a 4000mah pack because the size of the battery prevents setting the battery back past the pinion. 4000mah is most likely larger than needed anyway based on what's we've seen so far.

As I said before, I'm thinking packs in the 3700 range will be the "sweet spot" for giving the longest flight time and still get good CG (we just don't have any packs that size tested yet). If you're not flying hard 3D, then even smaller packs will be appropriate.

As a reference as to how large a battery you might think appropriate, Kyle has been breaking-in some new 4000mah packs on the machine, flying 3 minutes of medium-hard 3D flights @ a 2600 V-bar governed head speed, and putting back-in on average 2200mah.

Hope this info helps,

(-: Dave

[ShaneXman]

Originally Posted by dahld

@ ShaneXman

The ESC is the LV version, but you'll note on the link to the LV version you provided, that the 6A BEC has three selectable voltages, ranging from 5.7V up to 8V.

The JR servos Kyle installed are wide voltage types (can be used between 4.8V up to 2S Lipo), ELS01's on the cyclic, and the ELG01 on the tail. They are a high end metal geared and metal cased mini specifically designed for 500 sized helis.

(-: Dave

Dave,

Excellent. Thank you for further clarifying.


-Shane

[rablett]

Dave,
Sorry to bother you, but something isn't adding up to me. I have a 480 combo on preorder at RH and it comes with a Scorpion 4015-1070 which I believe is the same motor you guys are running with a 23t pinion. The combo says it comes with a 20t pinion. If my math is correct, a 20t pinion just isn't going to cut it since it gives a gear ratio of 10.6:1 On 6S that would be 22.2 x 1070 / 10.6 for a "optimum" head speed of just 2240. Do you know if the RH config is just a misprint? I asked them about other pinion options and they said there is only a 21 available. I've got a 4015-1450 that I am considering running in it otherwise.
Thanks!
Roger

[ddhuans]

Hi Dave,
Sorry about bothering you, but please let me know before I pull the trigger on pre-order this Xxtreme 480.
- Please let me know is there any chance that I can use the old carbon tailcase from my old 20mm Logo 500SE?
- My friend has a CNC machine so if I re-design and cut a new tail boom holder, can I use 22mm dia tail boom on it?
I have to ask because I really want to stretch this heli longer to use with 500mm blades
Last question, can I replace the stock 0,5M maingear with 0.7M main gear or even 1.0M main gear from Logo500/600?
Thank you in advance!

[prototype3a]

Originally Posted by dahld

Weight RTF minus battery is 1570g, and with a Gens Ace 3800 battery (as an example), it weighs 2160g...which is just about what Mikado's web site states as the RTF weight (they state 2200g, and maximum battery size as 4000mah).

Hrmm. So it is around 325g lighter than my ultralight Logo500. Sounds like it just needs mod0.7 for better gear ratio options and a Logo500 boom/belt to strech it out to 520 size as I suspect it would be just stupid light on 550s at that weight.

[dahld]

@ Rablett,

Yes, Kyle is running a 4015-1070 on a 23 tooth, which he asked specifically for in order to get a more appropriate head speed for 3D flying. I don't know if the 20 tooth spec. is a miss-print, mistake or what? The 20 tooth would be find for easy flying producing radically long flights...but that's not for everyone for sure.

I'm sorry, but I'm stuck in the middle, and don't know what the final kit content will be. But I agree the 20 tooth will not produce the appropriate head speed for the average 3D pilot out there on this size of heli.

Kyle's pretty happy with the performance so far @ 2600 head speed with the 23 tooth. Plenty of pop, easy on battery consumption, and everything's running nice and cool (and super quiet with the herringbone mod .5 gears).

That doesn't mean Kyle won't try other arrangements as time permits, but the set-up as printed except with the 23 tooth instead of the 20 tooth is pretty sweet.

I'll put it this way. After only two days of testing, Kyle's happy enough with it that he's taking it to the Orlando Heli Blowout next weekend for a debut. He might even get a vid done while there???

@ ddhuans,

With the exception of the cut of the CF tail plates, as far as I can see, all the parts on the 480's tail are off the 500/600. The boom is 20mm, so any CF tail box designed for a 20mm boom would work.

As far as making new boom clamps etc. to stretch the heli and increase the boom to 22mm...well, it is certainly doable. But FWIW, keep in mind increasing the disc size (but keeping the same general performance) usually requires more power, larger batteries, larger motor, possibly a longer main shaft (the 480'smain shaft is VERY short as compared to the Logo 500's), and possibly a larger frame to accommodate the larger battery. Handle all those issues, and by then you've got Logo 500
Keep everything the same on the 480 but just stretch it to 500-520 (or worse yet a 550), and then you've got an under-powered 500-550 with short flight time.

Just things to consider

(-; Dave

[Trader]

Hi Dave!

Do you think that gryphon polaris bec is good for your jr servos?

Thx,
Laci

[ddhuans]

Originally Posted by dahld

@ ddhuans,

With the exception of the cut of the CF tail plates, as far as I can see, all the parts on the 480's tail are off the 500/600. The boom is 20mm, so any CF tail box designed for a 20mm boom would work.

As far as making new boom clamps etc. to stretch the heli and increase the boom to 22mm...well, it is certainly doable. But FWIW, keep in mind increasing the disc size (but keeping the same general performance) usually requires more power, larger batteries, larger motor, possibly a longer main shaft (the 480'smain shaft is VERY short as compared to the Logo 500's), and possibly a larger frame to accommodate the larger battery. Handle all those issues, and by then you've got Logo 500
Keep everything the same on the 480 but just stretch it to 500-520 (or worse yet a 550), and then you've got an under-powered 500-550 with short flight time.

Just things to consider

(-; Dave

Dave,
Thank you for your message.
My Goblin 500 is about 200g heavier than Xxtreme 480 but still doing great with 500mm blades and 3700mAh 6S pack for 3 minutes 3D flight. So I think it would be ok with the Xxtreme. The Scorpion 4015-1070kv has 1900W max continuous power , while the Quantum motor I'm using in my Goblin 500 is only has 1600W power.
Thanks again for the info.

[DannyvG]

Originally Posted by dahld

Kyle's pretty happy with the performance so far @ 2600 head speed with the 23 tooth. Plenty of pop, easy on battery consumption, and everything's running nice and cool (and super quiet with the herringbone mod .5 gears).

I would be surprised if the governor is really working properly because 1070*3.7*6*23/212=2580rpm so towards the end of the battery or when the voltage sags under load he wont have any headroom left for the governor to function.

[mahbouni]

Originally Posted by dahld

@ mahbouni,

Good question many probably will want to know.

Front opening is 50mm wide by 60mm tall. This measurement is consistent back to the pinion, which sits 110mm back from the front of the frames...then you loose 10mm in height back to the main shaft.

But, don't plan on trying to stuff a battery larger than 4000mah into the tray, as the heli starts to get a little nose heavy with a 4000mah pack because the size of the battery prevents setting the battery back past the pinion. 4000mah is most likely larger than needed anyway based on what's we've seen so far.

As I said before, I'm thinking packs in the 3700 range will be the "sweet spot" for giving the longest flight time and still get good CG (we just don't have any packs that size tested yet). If you're not flying hard 3D, then even smaller packs will be appropriate.

As a reference as to how large a battery you might think appropriate, Kyle has been breaking-in some new 4000mah packs on the machine, flying 3 minutes of medium-hard 3D flights @ a 2600 V-bar governed head speed, and putting back-in on average 2200mah.

Hope this info helps,

(-: Dave

Thanks for the good info.

[Varelco]

No doubt people are going to stretch this thing. It's inevitable, I think turning it into 500-520mm machine is perfectly viable if the mod .5 gear train can take it.

Looking forward to seeing what this thing looks like for real. Wasn't going to buy any other helis for a while but this one is really tempting...

[rablett]

@dahld

Thanks for the response. Just wanted to confirm your gearing. I guess I'll wait and see what actually shows up with mine and I always have the 1450kv motor to run, if needed. I'm not a 3D flyer, but the math just isn't working with the 20t and I was told there wasn't anything else available when I called RH about it. Can't wait to see video and hear more reports. Heck, I can't wait until mine arrives even if it is winter here!

Roger

[dahld]

@ trader,

The gryphon (rated at 10A) should work fine. The internal BEC on the YGE that Kyle's been flying is rated at 6A with no issues.

(-: Dave

[marcosp]

Originally Posted by DannyvG

I would be surprised if the governor is really working properly because 1070*3.7*6*23/212=2580rpm so towards the end of the battery or when the voltage sags under load he wont have any headroom left for the governor to function.

You have to factor efficiency in that equation. 90% of that number max. I usually do the math using 4.2v and including the 90% and then see what a Gov of 75% to 80% represents. In this case it says 2925 and Gov at 80% 2340. However Gov curves are not linear. Headspeed calc says that that setup with 23t, YGE Gov or Vbar Gov the ok rpm is 2400, ideal closer to 2300 (so inline with my calculations). It's supposed to have quite a bit of rpm loss from 2600 at the mid and end of the flight.

[marcosp]

Roughly 100 rpm every additional tooth so 24t for 2500, 25t for 2600. Logo 550SX flies beautifully at 2250 so if this smaller heli on its designed 470 blades has a similar disk loading something around 2400 and 2500 should be very good for the average 3D pilot not doing demos.

[OnTheSnap]

Dave, can you sneak out in the garage and take some pictures? (-:

[ShaneXman]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

Dave, can you sneak out in the garage and take some pictures? (-:

+1...


-Shane

[dahld]

Well, before Kyle left for the Orlando Heli Blowout (at Mikado's request), we shot some pics of the heli along with Kyle, and some airborne shots as well (you know the type that gets used as background filler in ads), and sent them to Mikado. Up to them what they do with them

You're probably looking for detailed "on the bench" shots anyways (which I understand), but we have no permission to release those, and anyways, the heli is now in Florida as Kyle hangs out a few days before the event with his buds Kyle Stacy and Bobby Watts.

Trying to help get the details out, I'll try this: if you open a new tab, bring-up this thread so you can easily reference the photo at the beginning of this thread while I make comment here, I'll hopefully fill-in some details.

No need to discuss the head and tail...standard Logo 500/600 stuff. The photo of the heli's frame with the canopy off is right-on. Each side is one CF plate. The parts between the side plates consists of the metal motor mount and metal bottom bearing block (which are tied together for more rigidity via a small CF doubler on the outside of the frames), two plastic molded "X" braces (one in front and one behind the main shaft), the top molded bearing block, the two metal boom holders at the rear of the frame, the metal top and bottom supports for the belt idler pulleys, the molded V-Bar shelf, the CF ESC mounting plate, and the one piece molded bottom battery tray/landing gear mount.

Canopy mounting is standard Mikado, with the lower front of the canopy on the front struts, with mounting posts back by the V-bar shelf.

Hope this helps with the curiosity while we wait for more detailed pics to be released.

(-: Dave

[mahbouni]

@Dave, i was just looking at the pic and it seems there's not actually a lot of room for the ESC up front. I'm not sure if you have a Jive 100LV in your inventory but do you think it will fit there? How about the space at the back of the frame behind the pinion? Can anything be mounted to the bottom plate there?