Talon 90... Super soft tones... motor doesn't run

[j32driver]

'evening gents.

Goblin 500, Talon 90, Quantum motor, Hobbywing RPM sensor, MSH Brain FBL system.

Been flying this for a year using the Castle Governor. Just recently installed the hobbywing rpm sensor and started using the MSH Brain governor. Have probably 10 flights in that config.

Today, I decided to start using the Auto Rotation bailout mode of the Brain. Set the Talon to "multirotor" mode and handed off all duties of speed control to the Brain. 1st bench run, everything armed as normal. When I turned off Throttle Hold, the rotor turned about 1 rotation and quit.

Now... applying power to the Talon, the tones are present... but they are about 1/10th the volume they should be and I get zero rotation out of the motor.

Talon talks to the computer software like nothing is wrong. Talon BEC continues to power everything like normal.

I've tried returning to the original setup using "External Gov" in the Talon... but no dice. Still super soft tones and no motor response.

Where do I go next?

[Xrayted]

In my experience, weak tones have always meant a bad solder connection or some type of poor connection of one of the three motor to ESC wires. It's the motor that makes the sound and it may just be conicedence that this connectivity issue showed up at the point you activated the AR feature.

I would suspect the connector where you recently connected the phase sensor. If all else fails, reflow the solder connections on the ESC and motor bullets, and make sure the male bullet ends are spread enough to make good contact within the female ends.

[j32driver]

Originally Posted by Xrayted

In my experience, weak tones have always meant a bad solder connection or some type of poor connection of one of the three motor to ESC wires. It's the motor that makes the sound and it may just be conicedence that this connectivity issue showed up at the point you activated the AR feature.

I would suspect the connector where you recently connected the phase sensor. If all else fails, reflow the solder connections on the ESC and motor bullets, and make sure the male bullet ends are spread enough to make good contact within the female ends.

I was afraid that was going to be the advice. Good grief I hate soldering.

[Xrayted]

I also forgot to mention that you must recalibrate the ESC endpoints when you activate or deactivate the AR function if you haven't done that already.

[j32driver]

Originally Posted by Xrayted

I also forgot to mention that you must recalibrate the ESC endpoints when you activate or deactivate the AR function if you haven't done that already.

Nope. I didn't know that. Thank you.

I started wiggling motor wires and briefly got a normal loud tone out of the ESC boot cycle. Guess that means I need to break out the soldering station.

[j32driver]

Moved the wires around enough to get a good reliable motor run. I can't isolate which is the offending wire yet. I did pull the heatshrink off of all 6 connections and don't see anything obviously wrong. All the soldering is very solid. There is no discoloration on any of the joints or bullet connectors.

Do I need to remove everything and start fresh, or can I just hit each solder with a torch to reflow it? Any other way to troubleshoot other than just wiggling wires?

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by j32driver

Moved the wires around enough to get a good reliable motor run. I can't isolate which is the offending wire yet. I did pull the heatshrink off of all 6 connections and don't see anything obviously wrong. All the soldering is very solid. There is no discoloration on any of the joints or bullet connectors.

Do I need to remove everything and start fresh, or can I just hit each solder with a torch to reflow it? Any other way to troubleshoot other than just wiggling wires?

It's clearly a connevtion issue based on you being able to move the wires and resolve it. Sometimes the male bullet connectors can loose their spread and no longer make good contact within the female end if they are of the slotted, spring type, so spread those out a little if you can.

The only other option is to reflow the solder

[CharlieK]

It may be that a connection internal to the motor is bad.

[j32driver]

Originally Posted by CharlieK

It may be that a connection internal to the motor is bad.

I've redone the solder on the bullet connectors. When the wires are allowed to hang loose, the motor runs fine. When the wires are secured to the airframe, the motor is dead.

So... it is either internal to the motor, or internal to the ESC. I'm actually betting on the ESC. The wires from the motor don't change much when secured to the airframe, but the wires from the ESC actually get moved quite a bit.

I still have some more investigating to do when I get done traveling, but I suspect I'll send the ESC back to Castle and see if they can find an issue with it.

[atkin]

Doesn't the talon have female bullets "on board" aka internally? Or did they change the design?

[j32driver]

Originally Posted by atkin

Doesn't the talon have female bullets "on board" aka internally? Or did they change the design?

Uhhh... no idea! I'm the 2nd owner of this heli and had no idea the Talon was built like that. hmmmmm

I'll dig into this tomorrow.

[Xrayted]

The Talon line has the female bullets built into the ESC as far I know. Great if you can actually mount the ESC close enough for the motor leads to connect directly, however that isn't the way it works for most, and extensions are needed adding three additional bullet connections and resistance you typically wouldn't need to have potential issues with. One reason I personally would never be interested in using an ESC made like this.

[RC Mike]

I have seen quite a few that have to connectors removed and wires soldered directly to the circuit board. Castle should offer that as a purchase option.

　
As for me I like the Edge 100 much better as it has all the nice features I like and none of the problems that the Talon 90 has.
　

.

[Retired2011]

+1
No Talons for me!

[j32driver]

Thanks for all the help guys. Unfortunately, life happened and I didn't get any heli time today. Hit the road again for another 4 days tomorrow. I'll try again after I get home.

[j32driver]

You guys on the forum are awesome! Went to check the bullet connectors at the exit of the Talon and the middle connector on the ESC slid right out. Broken solder internal to the ESC.

So... as the 2nd owner of the Talon, do I:

A) Send the controller back to Castle and see if they will fix it?
B) Tear into the ESC and see if I can figure out how to fix it myself?
C) Chuck it and buy another ESC?

Thoughts gentleman?

[Retired2011]

Since it's over a year old, I'd call Castle and ask what they would charge to repair it...they might offer a discount on a new ESC.

Depending on the outcome of that, I would repair it myself.
If you are confident in your soldering abilities, remove the other two connectors and solder wires to the PCB (like a real ESC) instead.

[j32driver]

Kingmeow has offered to solder the ESC for me. He is going to remove the bullets and solder the wires directly to the board. The ESC shipped out this afternoon.

[RC Mike]

Originally Posted by j32driver

You guys on the forum are awesome! Went to check the bullet connectors at the exit of the Talon and the middle connector on the ESC slid right out. Broken solder internal to the ESC.

So... as the 2nd owner of the Talon, do I:

A) Send the controller back to Castle and see if they will fix it?
B) Tear into the ESC and see if I can figure out how to fix it myself?
C) Chuck it and buy another ESC?

Thoughts gentleman?

That’s a typical Talon failure. That’s why I would never use a Talon in a helicopter unless I modify it.
　
The solution is to remove the other two connectors from the circuit board and solder wires direct to the circuit board. You will need a large soldering iron to do that correctly. After that it will be much more reliable than a stock ESC.
　
　
.